One of the Biggest Mistakes

[jtork]

Who says you have to pay your tithes to the church you attend all the time???? There have been times when we have paid our tithes to other ministries and one weekend we were out of town and my husband bought a bunch of stuff and donated it to a homeless shelter for our tithes - I know a preacher better never send somebody to my house to collect tithes. I think these pentecostal organizations should do what other organizations do - pay pastors a salary through the organization - would keep them from forgetting what they are there for!!!!

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by jtork

Who says you have to pay your tithes to the church you attend all the time???? There have been times when we have paid our tithes to other ministries and one weekend we were out of town and my husband bought a bunch of stuff and donated it to a homeless shelter for our tithes - I know a preacher better never send somebody to my house to collect tithes. I think these pentecostal organizations should do what other organizations do - pay pastors a salary through the organization - would keep them from forgetting what they are there for!!!!

Pastors would never do that -- they would then loose control.

I know some Pastors who take the church's money and buy property around the church. The only thing -- the property is in their name.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by jtork

Who says you have to pay your tithes to the church you attend all the time???? There have been times when we have paid our tithes to other ministries and one weekend we were out of town and my husband bought a bunch of stuff and donated it to a homeless shelter for our tithes - I know a preacher better never send somebody to my house to collect tithes. I think these pentecostal organizations should do what other organizations do - pay pastors a salary through the organization - would keep them from forgetting what they are there for!!!!

At the risk of being ostracized futher by some people on this board, I figure that after pastoring for free for 8 years and paying most of the church bills ourselves, we can get by without paying tithes for a while and be just fine.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by jtork

Who says you have to pay your tithes to the church you attend all the time???? There have been times when we have paid our tithes to other ministries and one weekend we were out of town and my husband bought a bunch of stuff and donated it to a homeless shelter for our tithes - I know a preacher better never send somebody to my house to collect tithes. I think these pentecostal organizations should do what other organizations do - pay pastors a salary through the organization - would keep them from forgetting what they are there for!!!!

Well scripture does for one, look I am not legalistic about this, but I think it to be a tragedy for someone to be a recepient of spiritual offerings from ministry, then not want to share their material wealth with the people that feed them spiritual things (1 Corinthians 9).

I am not above taking care of those other needs (para-church, missions), but when you attend a certain church on a regular basis and not tithe there then you are a not living up to your responsiblilty, which is sinful.

[StMark]

ILG, don't take my question offensively, I'm just wondering why you are concerned?? Y
ou are no longer in UPC so you don't have to adhere to anything UPC anymore.

In my growing up years, I would agree with you to an extent. We went to church ALL THE TIME.
Funny thing is, no one complained then. Everyone seemed to love it a lot more then they love church today.
Our nation might be a better place IF people went to church a little more instead parking their butts in front of
TV watching MTV and playing X box ( youth).

I don't think most UPC churches have too much church these days.
the long revival meetings have been eliminated. Long services are gone.
Friday nights are gone. many have ended sunday nights.
Wednesdays are more than half empty in many UPC churches. what else do you want??
Have church once a month for 45 min ?

There's 168 hours in a week. Our church for instance totals less then 6 hours a week.
that leaves our members with 162 hours for family time. I don't think that's unreasonable do you ?

Ever consider that maybe attending church together IS family time as well???

[ILG]

ILG, don't take my question offensively, I'm just wondering why you are concerned?? Y
ou are no longer in UPC so you don't have to adhere to anything UPC anymore.

Because I spent almost my whole adult life there and it affected me deeply. I hope to spare someone else the pain I went through and the mistakes I made.

Ever consider that maybe attending church together IS family time as well?

Sure, it is. But God set aside one day a week for worship. That was all.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by ILG

Because I spent almost my whole adult life there and it affected me deeply. I hope to spare someone else the pain I went through and the mistakes I made.




Sure, it is. But God set aside one day a week for worship. That was all.

I know several people who are what I call "burned out fields". their pastors drilled it into them to be in every revival service, every activity,etc. and after years of it, unless the Lord works a miracle,they are permanant burnouts.

however, please don't shadow box. All UPC churches are not like that.
I would safely say that 1/2 of our members only come on Sunday. Like most UPC churches, our church runs 600+ on sunday but lucky to have 200 on Weds night.

[ILG]

Some of you don't understand the love affair I had with the UPC. I loved the UPC. I never loved everything about it, but I loved it. When I watched the Hoover/Meeks Wife Swap again the other day, again, I yearned for my unrequited love. My love for the UPC was almost entirely unrequited. It was like a woman married to an abusive lover that took and took and took and never gave anything back. Still, I tried to make it work. Until I realized that my lover had betrayed me. It was at that time that, in utter shock and pain, that I realized I had to leave. I agonized over this decision for literally years. Some of you don't understand the sacrifices I made to be in it or what I gave trying to make it work. You don't realize that I, as the only person in my family involved in anything remotely similar faced ostracism from my family for what I stood for and believed. Or that my husband and I spent years building a church. Or that we exhausted ourselves fighting for what we believed in.

You don't know that I loved standards. That I started living them out of a love affair for God and that I saw them as biblical principle but that, at 19 years of age, with no biblical background, I had no way to separate in my mind the love of the principles of the Bible and the legalism that was being fed me that slowly overtook me and confused me bitterly. You don't know that I tried to discuss my confusion with people and was turned away at every turn. You don't know that I spent hundreds of dollars on PPH books (maybe thousands) and spent days fasting and praying for answers that only came years later. You don't know that I was held at arms length without love and only demands from those who were supposed to lead me in God's paths.

Good grief, I didn't expect this thread to turn into this. I have tears in my eyes. I speak only with the hopes of touching my fellow human beings. With that always comes the risk of being misunderstood or ostracized. Anyway, I now know that I don't answer to man but only to God. Yesteday at work I ran into an apostolic woman. She had a hard time looking at me because of my trimmed hair. I don't blame her. I understand. I know she too, has a love affair going on and she loves her love. That's okay. But, not to her so much as to the lover that unrequited my love, I sang this song. I loved you at one time, but you have lost your chance. Please understand, this song is not to God, just to the church that didn't love me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmOrWG2FTbg

You Don't Own Me
Lesley Gore

(Words and Music by John Madara and David White)

You don't own me, I'm not just one of your many toys
You don't own me, don't say I can't go with other boys

And don't tell me what to do
And don't tell me what to say
And please, when I go out with you
Don't put me on display, 'cause

You don't own me, don't try to change me in any way
You don't own me, don't tie me down 'cause I'd never stay

Oh, I don't tell you what to say
I don't tell you what to do
So just let me be myself
That's all I ask of you

I'm young and I love to be young
I'm free and I love to be free
To live my life the way I want
To say and do whatever I please

And don't tell me what to do
Oh don't tell me what to say
And please, when I go out with you
Don't put me on display

I don't tell you what to say
Oh don't tell you what to do
So just let me be myself
That's all I ask of you

I'm young and I love to be young
I'm free and I love to be free
To live my life the way I want …
You Don't Own Me - Download Midi
1964

[StMark]

Originally Posted by ILG

Some of you don't understand the love affair I had with the UPC. I loved the UPC. I never loved everything about it, but I loved it. When I watched the Hoover/Meeks Wife Swap again the other day, again, I yearned for my unrequited love. My love for the UPC was almost entirely unrequited. It was like a woman married to an abusive lover that took and took and took and never gave anything back. Still, I tried to make it work. Until I realized that my lover had betrayed me. It was at that time that, in utter shock and pain, that I realized I had to leave. I agonized over this decision for literally years. Some of you don't understand the sacrifices I made to be in it or what I gave trying to make it work. You don't realize that I, as the only person in my family involved in anything remotely similar faced ostracism from my family for what I stood for and believed. Or that my husband and I spent years building a church. Or that we exhausted ourselves fighting for what we believed in.

You don't know that I loved standards. That I started living them out of a love affair for God and that I saw them as biblical principle but that, at 19 years of age, with no biblical background, I had no way to separate in my mind the love of the principles of the Bible and the legalism that was being fed me that slowly overtook me and confused me bitterly. You don't know that I tried to discuss my confusion with people and was turned away at every turn. You don't know that I spent hundreds of dollars on PPH books (maybe thousands) and spent days fasting and praying for answers that only came years later. You don't know that I was held at arms length without love and only demands from those who were supposed to lead me in God's paths.

Good grief, I didn't expect this thread to turn into this. I have tears in my eyes. I speak only with the hopes of touching my fellow human beings. With that always comes the risk of being misunderstood or ostracized. Anyway, I now know that I don't answer to man but only to God. Yesteday at work I ran into an apostolic woman. She had a hard time looking at me because of my trimmed hair. I don't blame her. I understand. I know she too, has a love affair going on and she loves her love. That's okay. But, not to her so much as to the lover that unrequited my love, I sang this song. I loved you at one time, but you have lost your chance. Please understand, this song is not to God, just to the church that didn't love me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmOrWG2FTbg

You Don't Own Me
Lesley Gore

(Words and Music by John Madara and David White)

You don't own me, I'm not just one of your many toys
You don't own me, don't say I can't go with other boys

And don't tell me what to do
And don't tell me what to say
And please, when I go out with you
Don't put me on display, 'cause

You don't own me, don't try to change me in any way
You don't own me, don't tie me down 'cause I'd never stay

Oh, I don't tell you what to say
I don't tell you what to do
So just let me be myself
That's all I ask of you

I'm young and I love to be young
I'm free and I love to be free
To live my life the way I want
To say and do whatever I please

And don't tell me what to do
Oh don't tell me what to say
And please, when I go out with you
Don't put me on display

I don't tell you what to say
Oh don't tell you what to do
So just let me be myself
That's all I ask of you

I'm young and I love to be young
I'm free and I love to be free
To live my life the way I want …
You Don't Own Me - Download Midi
1964

I hope I didn't contribute to those tears. If so, I'll back away from this thread. I think the reason why people came along with such strong opinions is, you made broad sweeping statements as if all UPC churches were just like the one you experienced. I do believe you though because I know others who have been through just what you described.

ILG, the bible says offenses are going to come. I read other forums too. If you was in the AoG or the Baptist church, the charismatic church, offenses would come if you belonged to one of them also. They fight, have church splits etc. it's just a different set of reasons. understand??

My parents pastored for 47 years. It would take too long to tell you all they went through. You cannot imagine! but coming thru poverty, the war, the depression, prepared them. they were tough as nails. I could have never done it.

I heard a study the other day that really stuck with me. It was a a bible lesson on hurts and forgiveness. I don't remember much of it but what stuck with me was 3 things:

!. Don't Rehearse it

2. Don't nurse it

3. Don't curse it

They went into detail on each of these and also pointed out that one of signs of the endtimes will be that many will be offended AND many will fall away ( as a result)

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by StMark

I hope I didn't contribute to those tears. If so, I'll back away from this thread. I think the reason why people came along with such strong opinions is, you made broad sweeping statements as if all UPC churches were just like the one you experienced. I do believe you though because I know others who have been through just what you described.

ILG, the bible says offenses are going to come. I read other forums too. If you was in the AoG or the Baptist church, the charismatic church, offenses would come if you belonged to one of them also. They fight, have church splits etc. it's just a different set of reasons. understand??

My parents pastored for 47 years. It would take too long to tell you all they went through. You cannot imagine! but coming thru poverty, the war, the depression, prepared them. they were tough as nails. I could have never done it.

I heard a study the other day that really stuck with me. It was a a bible lesson on hurts and forgiveness. I don't remember much of it but what stuck with me was 3 things:

!. Don't Rehearse it

2. Don't nurse it

3. Don't curse it

They went into detail on each of these and also pointed out that one of signs of the endtimes will be that many will be offended AND many will fall away ( as a result)

I preached on the subject matter in the past. The saying is

If you don't nurse it, rehearse it or curse it, God in time will reverse it.