May I smoke here??!

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

No and Yes. You??

So, have you ever preached against smoking?

If so, do you make it a heaven or hell issue?

And, if you do, what scriptures do you use to support that?

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

So, have you ever preached against smoking?

If so, do you make it a heaven or hell issue?

And, if you do, what scriptures do you use to support that?

Most converts with common sense and that have just received the Holy Ghost, instinctly know that cigarette just doesn't fit their new home. Converts don't ask for scripture and verse for something like cigarettes, only people wishing to debate for the sake of debate do. If they ask, or when they've asked you KNOW which verse I use: our body is a temple of the Holy Ghost. To defile it with cigarette smoking is useless and pointless. Hell issue? Well, just find another church. We don't do that. We have some converts that it takes a couple months for them to break the habit, but God helps them and I've been delighted to watch God work in their life.

Heaven or hell.... wow... it always comes down to that. Can't we just please the Lord?

Now your turn. Tell us what you believe. Is smoking wrong or not???

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

Most converts with common sense and that have just received the Holy Ghost, instinctly know that cigarette just doesn't fit their new home. Converts don't ask for scripture and verse for something like cigarettes, only people wishing to debate for the sake of debate do. If they ask, or when they've asked you KNOW which verse I use: our body is a temple of the Holy Ghost. To defile it with cigarette smoking is useless and pointless. Hell issue? Well, just find another church. We don't do that. We have some converts that it takes a couple months for them to break the habit, but God helps them and I've been delighted to watch God work in their life.

Heaven or hell.... wow... it always comes down to that. Can't we just please the Lord?

Now your turn. Tell us what you believe. Is smoking wrong or not???

I agree that there are many things we should do because we love God, but that wasn't the question I asked - that you conveniently failed to answer.

Ok, I'm going to lay out my case here, because I have to get back to work.

I've heard plenty of preachers preach that smoking will send you to hell, and they used the "defiling the temple" scripture.

However, consider these facts:

Left unabated, obesity will surpass smoking as the leading cause of preventable death in America

Obesity has been linked to: Hypertension, Coronary Heart Disease, Adult Onset Diabetes, Stroke, Gall Bladder Disease, Osteoarthritis, Sleep Apnea, Respiratory Problems, Endometrial, Breast, Prostate and Colon Cancers, Dyslipidemia, steatohepatitis, insulin resistance, breathlessness, Asthma, Hyperuricaemia, reproductive hormone abnormalities, polycystic ovarian syndrome, impaired fertility and lower back pain

Have you ever heard a preacher preach that being obese will send someone to hell? I haven't.

How many preachers are going to start preaching against fast food, since it's been linked to heart disease, liver disease, and much more?

I am absolutely against smoking, but I am not going to preach that someone will go to hell for smoking, when I can't preach that they'll go to hell for being obese.

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

I agree that there are many things we should do because we love God, but that wasn't the question I asked - that you conveniently failed to answer.

Ok, I'm going to lay out my case here, because I have to get back to work.

I've heard plenty of preachers preach that smoking will send you to hell, and they used the "defiling the temple" scripture.

However, consider these facts:

Left unabated, obesity will surpass smoking as the leading cause of preventable death in America

Obesity has been linked to: Hypertension, Coronary Heart Disease, Adult Onset Diabetes, Stroke, Gall Bladder Disease, Osteoarthritis, Sleep Apnea, Respiratory Problems, Endometrial, Breast, Prostate and Colon Cancers, Dyslipidemia, steatohepatitis, insulin resistance, breathlessness, Asthma, Hyperuricaemia, reproductive hormone abnormalities, polycystic ovarian syndrome, impaired fertility and lower back pain

Have you ever heard a preacher preach that being obese will send someone to hell? I haven't.

How many preachers are going to start preaching against fast food, since it's been linked to heart disease, liver disease, and much more?

I am absolutely against smoking, but I am not going to preach that someone will go to hell for smoking, when I can't preach that they'll go to hell for being obese.

Well, if the man of God confronted the person to get rid of it and they refused because they wanted to see "consistency", I'd say there was a deeper spiritual problem. Else, find a new church.

I knew where you were going with this. How in God's name can you tell obese people they are going to hell? How twisted are you? Obesity has many causes, not the least being genetic, hereditary, based on metabolism, etc... You are trying to draw the picture that they are all gluttoness slobs. Shame!

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

Well, if the man of God confronted the person to get rid of it and they refused because they wanted to see "consistency", I'd say there was a deeper spiritual problem. Else, find a new church.

I knew where you were going with this. How in God's name can you tell obese people they are going to hell? How twisted are you? Obesity has many causes, not the least being genetic, hereditary, based on metabolism, etc... You are trying to draw the picture that they are all gluttoness slobs. Shame!

Sorry, I'm not the one who made that claim. I just posted facts.

And, I will say, you are right, some inherit it, but there are a host more who eat themselves into it.

I've made my point, work calleth! Good day to you, sir!

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Sorry, I'm not the one who made that claim. I just posted facts.

And, I will say, you are right, some inherit it, but there are a host more who eat themselves into it.

I've made my point, work calleth! Good day to you, sir!

Your point is very weak. Cigarette smoking has no good intention. Eating does. Gluttony is sin. Smoking is sin. However, obesity is not sin.

Did you know stress can cause diseases? So I guess anyone dealing with stress or having a down moment is sinning as well? And that's your idea of justifying that none of it is wrong? Unbelievable.

[jtork]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

Your point is very weak. Cigarette smoking has no good intention. Eating does. Gluttony is sin. Smoking is sin. However, obesity is not sin.

Did you know stress can cause diseases? So I guess anyone dealing with stress or having a down moment is sinning as well? And that's your idea of justifying that none of it is wrong? Unbelievable.

If your obesity is caused from your gluttony it is sin.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

Well, if the man of God confronted the person to get rid of it and they refused because they wanted to see "consistency", I'd say there was a deeper spiritual problem. Else, find a new church.

I knew where you were going with this. How in God's name can you tell obese people they are going to hell? How twisted are you? Obesity has many causes, not the least being genetic, hereditary, based on metabolism, etc... You are trying to draw the picture that they are all gluttoness slobs. Shame!

Are you not understanding the point Mike is making??

Then how twisted is it to tell people who smoke they are going to hell, but for someone who has purposely over eats to point of gluttony on a continual basis is not??

[2020Vision]

Originally Posted by Jeanie

Are you not understanding the point Mike is making??

Then how twisted is it to tell people who smoke they are going to hell, but for someone who has purposely over eats to point of gluttony on a continual basis is not??

Fact is, I don't remember telling a smoker they are going to hell. Never had to. We preach against it and let them know it doesn't please God. It goes without saying. I'm not missing his point at all. This is like a child getting caught, trying to complain about everything his brother did to get him out of the trouble he's in.

Some of you like blanket, tidy consistency and are afraid to approach issues one-by-one. A glutton, one who is given to vicious appetities and overeating, is surely in sin. I think they are BOTH sinning. There!

[Amos]

Originally Posted by 2020Vision

Fact is, I don't remember telling a smoker they are going to hell. Never had to. We preach against it and let them know it doesn't please God. It goes without saying. I'm not missing his point at all. This is like a child getting caught, trying to complain about everything his brother did to get him out of the trouble he's in.

Some of you like blanket, tidy consistency and are afraid to approach issues one-by-one. A glutton, one who is given to vicious appetities and overeating, is surely in sin. I think they are BOTH sinning. There!

This is the most insidious kind of legalism--the kind that wants to turn the New Testament into just another rule book, sort of a kinder, gentler, more permissive version of the law.

And if we can't find a specific Scripture forbidding it, it is fair game.