Why Does God Give the Baptism of the Holy Ghost?

MissBrattified · #1 01-07-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

As an added conversation piece, let me ask this...

MissBrattified, you and I believe that repentance, baptism and Holy Ghost infilling are essential to the New Birth. Can we say that we are commanded to recieve the Holy Ghost?

I don't know. The Bible says its a promise, a gift. I'm surprised when people don't receive the Holy Ghost. The biblical examples don't seem to leave anyone out or anyone at the altar frustrated because they haven't received the Holy Ghost--it leads me to believe that:

1. People are seeking signs instead of God (tongues), which has corrupted the authenticity of the process, and,
2. We are lacking the power of the first church.

Although, I know that there are a couple of places where people "tarried" until the Holy Ghost fell upon them. We can wonder and suppose and conjecture, would God have allowed them to be lost if they had all died before the Holy Ghost fell? And does that mean the Holy Ghost isn't essential? I believe God is more faithful than that.

I don't have all the answers. My husband didn't receive the Holy Ghost until well after he had been baptized, at home, by himself. Would I go so far as to say he would have been lost between baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost? I don't know. I think God is a just God, and judges people appropriately, even outside His own lines. He'll have mercy upon whom He will have mercy, but in the meantime, we should be following His commandments and the examples of the apostles to the best of our ability.

I don't believe we should look in the Bible and find loopholes for those who haven't received the Holy Ghost or been baptized, but rather, try to find out how we are to reach OUT to those who haven't received the Holy Ghost or been baptized.

Jack Shephard · #2 01-07-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I don't know. The Bible says its a promise, a gift. I'm surprised when people don't receive the Holy Ghost. The biblical examples don't seem to leave anyone out or anyone at the altar frustrated because they haven't received the Holy Ghost--it leads me to believe that:

1. People are seeking signs instead of God (tongues), which has corrupted the authenticity of the process, and,2. We are lacking the power of the first church.
Although, I know that there are a couple of places where people "tarried" until the Holy Ghost fell upon them. We can wonder and suppose and conjecture, would God have allowed them to be lost if they had all died before the Holy Ghost fell? And does that mean the Holy Ghost isn't essential? I believe God is more faithful than that.

I don't have all the answers. My husband didn't receive the Holy Ghost until well after he had been baptized, at home, by himself. Would I go so far as to say he would have been lost between baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost? I don't know. I think God is a just God, and judges people appropriately, even outside His own lines. He'll have mercy upon whom He will have mercy, but in the meantime, we should be following His commandments and the examples of the apostles to the best of our ability.

I don't believe we should look in the Bible and find loopholes for those who haven't received the Holy Ghost or been baptized, but rather, try to find out how we are to reach OUT to those who haven't received the Holy Ghost or been baptized.

I don't agree totally with both these things. First tongues are a sign to the unbeliever the Bible says so looking for a sign is not a bad thing, perhaps they are looking for a different sign. Second is the power comes from the same source. They had the same HG we do, but I believe that perhaps they were more sensitive to it. When God fills us with the HG that is all the power we will get, IMO. However the closer we continue to get to Him does the power work more. Kinda like the possitive side and a negative side of a battery. The negative side has all the power it will get but when combined with the possitive side the power increasesm but not cause the negative side gained power, but because it combined with something of similar or greater power.

MissBrattified · #3 01-07-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I don't agree totally with both these things. First tongues are a sign to the unbeliever the Bible says so looking for a sign is not a bad thing, perhaps they are looking for a different sign. Second is the power comes from the same source. They had the same HG we do, but I believe that perhaps they were more sensitive to it. When God fills us with the HG that is all the power we will get, IMO. However the closer we continue to get to Him does the power work more. Kinda like the possitive side and a negative side of a battery. The negative side has all the power it will get but when combined with the possitive side the power increasesm but not cause the negative side gained power, but because it combined with something of similar or greater power.

Those are just my thoughts, I don't know why so many people seem to struggle receiving the Holy Ghost.

I agree with your comment that perhaps they were more sensitive to the power of the Holy Ghost--I've heard more than one missionary say that it is easier for people to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost in other countries, so maybe it's just our skepticism, cynicism or familiarity with the process. Regardless, something is different, but I don't think we should try to find loopholes to excuse the differences, but rather something that will help us eliminate the differences (between the NT church/present day church).

EA · #4 01-07-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I don't know. The Bible says its a promise, a gift. I'm surprised when people don't receive the Holy Ghost. The biblical examples don't seem to leave anyone out or anyone at the altar frustrated because they haven't received the Holy Ghost--it leads me to believe that:

1. People are seeking signs instead of God (tongues), which has corrupted the authenticity of the process, and,
2. We are lacking the power of the first church.

Although, I know that there are a couple of places where people "tarried" until the Holy Ghost fell upon them. We can wonder and suppose and conjecture, would God have allowed them to be lost if they had all died before the Holy Ghost fell? And does that mean the Holy Ghost isn't essential? I believe God is more faithful than that.

I don't have all the answers. My husband didn't receive the Holy Ghost until well after he had been baptized, at home, by himself. Would I go so far as to say he would have been lost between baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost? I don't know. I think God is a just God, and judges people appropriately, even outside His own lines. He'll have mercy upon whom He will have mercy, but in the meantime, we should be following His commandments and the examples of the apostles to the best of our ability.

I don't believe we should look in the Bible and find loopholes for those who haven't received the Holy Ghost or been baptized, but rather, try to find out how we are to reach OUT to those who haven't received the Holy Ghost or been baptized.

I agree. I am surprised at the efforts within Pentecostal churches to minimize the importance of Holy Ghost baptism. That experience is our identifier.

The biblical model Peter preached is as follows.

Early Part of Acts 2 = Strong Gospel preaching that led to conviction and an inner questioning as to how to respond to what Jesus did for them.

2:37 "What shall we do?"

Good preaching always answers this question, The Gospel message is meaningless unless it is responded to PROPERLY. Peter was very specific in his preaching to them.

2:38 Two commands: "Repent and be baptized." These commands were given after their questioning faith found a voice. Peter went so far as to give their responses salvational implications when he said "for the remission of sins."

2:38b "And ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Promise, promise, promise. It is a guarantee. It will happen. Why would anyone doubt it? Minimize it? Circumvent it? Quench it?

2:39 "The promise is unto you"

Two commands and a promise. God does not lie.

Sam · #5 01-07-2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

...
2:38b "And ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Promise, promise, promise. It is a guarantee. It will happen. Why would anyone doubt it? Minimize it? Circumvent it? Quench it?

2:39 "The promise is unto you"

Two commands and a promise. God does not lie.

Mark 16:18 Jesus promises that one of the signs that would follow believers is that they "shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover." This too is a promise but it does not always happen. Some times it happens. Some times it happens later. And some times recovery does not happen in this lifetime.

EA · #6 01-07-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

Mark 16:18 Jesus promises that one of the signs that would follow believers is that they "shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover." This too is a promise but it does not always happen. Some times it happens. Some times it happens later. And some times recovery does not happen in this lifetime.

Peter's promise is more specific.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

He was not issuing a generic statement. It was a specific message for EVERYONE.