Obama kicks pirate "booty"

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

You are asking a fair question. Indonesia, who has the same population as the US, also has the highest Muslim population in the world (aka more Muslims than any other country). The country is predominantly Muslim and their legal systems are based on Sharia law (as spelled out, NOT the oppressive little extras that have been added over the years) There are all sorts of churches of all sorts of faiths on the city streets of Jakarta and other cities there. My own wife was raised in a Muslim family in Jakarta yet went to Catholic grade school and Protestant middle/high school (yes the education in the private schools are better, lol). As did our President in Jakarta, in spite of the rumors that HIS school in Jakarta was some kind of militant training center or some such. Indonesia is similar to the US in that they fought the Dutch for independence. They are a very young democracy but when election day comes boy do they show up to cast their votes. Their legal system is chosen and they choose to base their laws on Sharia principles.

Democracy there didn't help three catholic school girls from being beheaded. In all these nations with Sharia law, as tame as you might think it is Christians are still second class citizens who are out numbered and have little sympathy in the goverment who are supposed to protect them

[Walks_in_islam]

Democracy in America didn't help the 16,000 victims of murder last year either did it? Or the 90,000 rape victims. Or 263,000 victims of robbery/assault. There is crime everywhere. BUT....the highest prison population per capita certainly is not in a Muslim country is it? Sad as it is, a Christian was safer in Iraq in 2006 than in New Orleans in 2006. Look it up. Violent deaths per capita. There are a whole list of US cities that ranked lower in safety than wartime Iraq and you look overseas and talk of "second class citizens" and safety.

Get this: I and my family are safer as an American in Saudi Arabia than I was in Houston. That is a FACT and I am on the ground here. Many of us are. Now spend some time scratching your heads and justify that one away.

US christians aparantly have little sympathy in the government that is supposed to protect them as well. BTW dont you have an assignment you are supposed to be working on in the Islam vs. Christianity board Prax?

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Democracy there didn't help three catholic school girls from being beheaded. In all these nations with Sharia law, as tame as you might think it is Christians are still second class citizens who are out numbered and have little sympathy in the goverment who are supposed to protect them

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Democracy in America didn't help the 16,000 victims of murder last year either did it? Or the 90,000 rape victims. Or 263,000 victims of robbery/assault.

And? Those things don't happen with the motivation being Christianity. Those rapes are not being done in the name of Jesus. None of those are being done in the name of Jesus. If you want to change the topic from religion to nations be my guest. I will get in line first and point out how corrupt American society is.

There is crime everywhere. BUT....the highest prison population per capita certainly is not in a Muslim country is it? Sad as it is, a Christian was safer in Iraq in 2006 than in New Orleans in 2006.

Christians IN Iraq are persected for their religion, not just a random act of criminal intent.

Look it up. Violent deaths per capita. There are a whole list of US cities that ranked lower in safety than wartime Iraq and you look overseas and talk of "second class citizens" and safety.

What you are doing is called a Red Herring.

Get this: I and my family are safer as an American in Saudi Arabia than I was in Houston. That is a FACT and I am on the ground here. Many of us are. Now spend some time scratching your heads and justify that one away.

Yeah? Well get this. If I were in Saudi Arabia I would be very unsafe for practicing my religion openly...

US christians aparantly have little sympathy in the government that is supposed to protect them as well. BTW dont you have an assignment you are supposed to be working on in the Islam vs. Christianity board Prax?

I have no assignments. That is the great thing about being in America. Pretty arrogant that you think you can hand me an assignment and expect me to drop everything do it lol

[Walks_in_islam]

I will re-post, and will be the first in line to state that Islam specifically and in the Quran forbids persecution of both Christians and Jews for their beliefs. I was asked earlier about Muslim nations and answered honestly from what I know.

Sharia law is pretty simple. Some givenments add all kinds of stuff to it and make it opressive. The Mideast is a mix. Egypt, Lebanon, UAE, and Bahrain legal systems have Sharia basis yet are tolerant of other faiths. KSA and others are not. KSA is especially bad about oppression of women. They forget (and believe me when I say I remind Saudis of this) that Mohammed's wife was a businesswoman who travelled and did business all over the middle east. They hate that reminder (laughing) because Islam specifically teaches that a wife's property and business is hers and only hers and that they have the right to manage their own business. Preventing such is against the Quran AND the teachings of Mohammed (they hate to hear that but never contend that is incorrect either).

Sharia law, as spelled out, is not oppressive and was never intended to be opressive. Certainly throughout time oppressive legal systems are by no means limited to those who misuse Sharia law either. It boils down to this as what I have observed in the world: Bad leaders form bad governments who create opressive conditions for the people who then have to live under their control.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

And? Those things don't happen with the motivation being Christianity. Those rapes are not being done in the name of Jesus. None of those are being done in the name of Jesus. If you want to change the topic from religion to nations be my guest. I will get in line first and point out how corrupt American society is.


Christians IN Iraq are persected for their religion, not just a random act of criminal intent.


What you are doing is called a Red Herring.


Yeah? Well get this. If I were in Saudi Arabia I would be very unsafe for practicing my religion openly...


I have no assignments. That is the great thing about being in America. Pretty arrogant that you think you can hand me an assignment and expect me to drop everything do it lol

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I will re-post, and will be the first in line to state that Islam specifically and in the Quran forbids persecution of both Christians and Jews for their beliefs. I was asked earlier about Muslim nations and answered honestly from what I know.

Sharia law is pretty simple. Some givenments add all kinds of stuff to it and make it opressive. The Mideast is a mix. Egypt, Lebanon, UAE, and Bahrain legal systems have Sharia basis yet are tolerant of other faiths. KSA and others are not. KSA is especially bad about oppression of women. They forget (and believe me when I say I remind Saudis of this) that Mohammed's wife was a businesswoman who travelled and did business all over the middle east. They hate that reminder (laughing) because Islam specifically teaches that a wife's property and business is hers and only hers and that they have the right to manage their own business. Preventing such is against the Quran AND the teachings of Mohammed (they hate to hear that but never contend that is incorrect either).

Sharia law, as spelled out, is not oppressive and was never intended to be opressive. Certainly throughout time oppressive legal systems are by no means limited to those who misuse Sharia law either. It boils down to this as what I have observed in the world: Bad leaders form bad governments who create opressive conditions for the people who then have to live under their control.

Can you explain this quote from the Quran?

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden that which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Thank you

[Walks_in_islam]

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day

Do you actually need me to explain this?

BTW can you explain these quotes from the Bible?

Whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death

And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die.

If there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... stone them with stones, till they die.

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die.

A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them

They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ... And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones.... And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses

Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Can you explain this quote from the Quran?

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden that which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Thank you

[Walks_in_islam]

Still no takers huh? Nobody wants to take this (not at all a fully-inclusive list) of verses and (1) explain them and (2) explain why the entire christian faith should not be judged by them? You would rather point to the deeds of a few scraggly criminals who act under a false and twisted version of "islam", justify the problems in your own neighborhoods, and then cannot explain the texts of your own bibles while at the same time being critical of societies that incorporate them, nearly word-for-word?

Your churches preach modesty, we practice it, you criticize it. Your churches preach charity we practice it you criticize it. Your churches preach regular prayer we practice it you criticize it. Your churches preach against drugs/alcohol we practice it you criticize it. Your churches preach fasting we practice it you criticize it. Your churches preach abstinance we practice it you criticize it. Your churches preach to live apart from the evils of society we practice it you criticize it. Every Christian who practices exactly what christian churches teach will live their life exactly as an average, day-to-day Muslim does. That's what is so sad about these silly debates lol. I contend all of us, all of you - do this - pray every day, fast regularly, look for ways to give - really give to those in need around you, stay apart from the world and things of the world, do not let your finances sink into the well of debt, stay apart from the opposite sex minus your spouses, and see what a difference that makes in your life, your community, and your family's life.

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day

Do you actually need me to explain this?

BTW can you explain these quotes from the Bible?

Whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death

And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die.

If there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... stone them with stones, till they die.

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die.

A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them

They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ... And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones.... And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses

Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die.

[Walks_in_islam]

Yeah? Well get this. If I were in Saudi Arabia I would be very unsafe for practicing my religion openly...

Yeah well get this. In the US it is unsafe for Muslims to practice religion openly. Religious persecution takes many path, but it is still persecution no matter how shiny the wrapping.

http://www.ccun.org/News/2009/March/...%20Houston.htm

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Yeah? Well get this. If I were in Saudi Arabia I would be very unsafe for practicing my religion openly...

Yeah well get this. In the US it is unsafe for Muslims to practice religion openly. Religious persecution takes many path, but it is still persecution no matter how shiny the wrapping.

http://www.ccun.org/News/2009/March/...%20Houston.htm

There are Mosques everywhere in America. They have freedom of religion. They can have a mosque on every corner. Can you say the same for non-Islamic religions in Saudi Arabia? How many open churches exist there?

[Walks_in_islam]

As they do in Jakarta (churches/mosques on every corner). Before you start googling there are probably examples of hate crimes in Jakarta and certainly the government there has executed extremists for these actions. In fact, I was in Jakarta in Oct, 2007. While I was there the Indonesian paramilitary police caught a couple of radical extremists holed up in a house and eliminated them with admirable dispatch.

How many combinations of words will indicate to you that I have clearly stated specific countries that I know of where Islamic law is specifically mis-applied to the persecution of both Christians and Jews and that this mis-application is wrong and contrary to the specific teachings of Islam aka the misuse of Sharia law to oppress? I am not a Saudi. I do not propose to speak for the Saudis or their rules or their government. I am a Texan and a Muslim. As such, and based on my personal studies and what I have been taught and read, this persecution is prohibited in Islam.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

There are Mosques everywhere in America. They have freedom of religion. They can have a mosque on every corner. Can you say the same for non-Islamic religions in Saudi Arabia? How many open churches exist there?