A while back I told someone that David reminded me of President Bill Clinton in the way he liked the ladies. The person that I told that to disagreed and was a little offended about the way I looked at David, the man after God's own heart. I didn't see it as a problem. I believe David really did love the Lord and had an intimate relationship with Him but he just couldn't keep his hands off the ladies. He's certainly not the first preacher or man of God with that problem.
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Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
A while back I told someone that David reminded me of President Bill Clinton in the way he liked the ladies. The person that I told that to disagreed and was a little offended about the way I looked at David, the man after God's own heart. I didn't see it as a problem. I believe David really did love the Lord and had an intimate relationship with Him but he just couldn't keep his hands off the ladies. He's certainly not the first preacher or man of God with that problem.
Yep.
And anyway, so what if he did dance naked in front of the people? Would that have been wrong? A sin? Where's the no-nakedness commandment, anyway?
(Not advocating public nudity. I'm just sayin'. As usual. )
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
My personal opinion is that when he was accused by his wife of "uncovering" himself it was her way of saying that he had taken off his royal robes and dressed and acted like any "common person."
But, maybe in his exuberance David did "expose" himself. I'm sure there were several ladies in the crowd that enjoyed the view and, knowing David's reputation, some didn't see anything they hadn't seen before.
And anyway, so what if he did dance naked in front of the people? Would that have been wrong? A sin? Where's the no-nakedness commandment, anyway?
(Not advocating public nudity. I'm just sayin'. As usual. )
I think it would have been immodest, yes. It certainly wouldn't have been in keeping with Jewish culture.
But, more to the point, I think the Bible clarifies it's accounts pretty well (such as with Peter), and if David had been entirely naked, it would have said so. JMO!!!!
Look at the shame that was inferred upon Ham when he saw his naked, drunken father in the tent...and yet dancing naked on the streets with women(and probably children) watching would have been acceptable to the Lord? I doubt it. (That story also clarifies that Noah was naked.)
Anyway, the story about David states that he was girded with a linen ephod. It is possible that he wore it around his waist, since "girded" means "as a belt; armor", and "ephod" means a "girdle; specifically the...high priest's shoulder piece."
Also, that might fit in the context of what Michal said, when she accused him of uncovering himself as one of the "vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself." The picture that comes to my mind is a young man taking his shirt off.
Since the scripture does say that he was wearing something, then I'm going to agree with it, and say he was not entirely naked. BUT, it's possible he was flashing some skin. I just doubt he was flashing his white and shiny hiney.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
I think it would have been immodest, yes. It certainly wouldn't have been in keeping with Jewish culture.
But, more to the point, I think the Bible clarifies it's accounts pretty well (such as with Peter), and if David had been entirely naked, it would have said so. JMO!!!!
Look at the shame that was inferred upon Ham when he saw his naked, drunken father in the tent...and yet dancing naked on the streets with women(and probably children) watching would have been acceptable to the Lord? I doubt it. (That story also clarifies that Noah was naked.)
Anyway, the story about David states that he was girded with a linen ephod. It is possible that he wore it around his waist, since "girded" means "as a belt; armor", and "ephod" means a "girdle; specifically the...high priest's shoulder piece."
Also, that might fit in the context of what Michal said, when she accused him of uncovering himself as one of the "vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself." The picture that comes to my mind is a young man taking his shirt off.
Since the scripture does say that he was wearing something, then I'm going to agree with it, and say he was not entirely naked. BUT, it's possible he was flashing some skin. I just doubt he was flashing his white and shiny hiney.
That makes sense. It's odd, though, that so many other things are commanded clearly, but this one seems to be just hinted at indirectly, and it almost always has to do with people's attitude toward it, and not God's (Ham and Noah being a possible exception). Adam and Eve felt shame for their nakedness after the fall, but God didn't seem to be bothered by it as if it was a sin. And it must not have been a sin before the fall.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
That makes sense. It's odd, though, that so many other things are commanded clearly, but this one seems to be just hinted at indirectly, and it almost always has to do with people's attitude toward it, and not God's (Ham and Noah being a possible exception). Adam and Eve felt shame for their nakedness after the fall, but God didn't seem to be bothered by it as if it was a sin. And it must not have been a sin before the fall.
Adam and Eve were certainly innocent before the fall. But once sin entered their hearts, innocency was gone and mad could not handle certain situations without further sinning.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Adam and Eve were certainly innocent before the fall. But once sin entered their hearts, innocence was gone and mad could not handle certain situations without further sinning.
But they were husband and wife, so why was nudity a problem? It wouldn't have been sinful, even if they had looked at each other and wanted to act upon the "situation."
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Adam and Eve were certainly innocent before the fall. But once sin entered their hearts, innocency was gone and mad could not handle certain situations without further sinning.
But why did Adam and Eve need clothes if they were the only people in the world?
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"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
But why did Adam and Eve need clothes if they were the only people in the world?
They were ashamed, probably before God. Notice they only hid when God came, and that was with fig leaves on. They remained together before God came, unashamed with one another, but Adam still felt naked when God came. I think it was actually more of an inward nakedness that he tried to remedy outwardly, like so many do today. He did not know how to react to his inward state.
Notice Adam said he was stil naked after sewing fig leaves upon himself.
Genesis 3:7-10 KJV And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. (9) And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? (10) And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
Why would he say he was still naked since he covered himself with fig leaves? And why not run when he saw Eve, if he was ashamed of nakedness in front of her? But they were together after having sewed fig leaves together for aprons, and never hid and still felt naked until God came. This means it was not their physical nakedness that was the issue. THEY THOUGHT that was it, but felt the same thing after being clothed by themselves when God came. This proves, it seems, it was shame of their inward nakedness and sin of their hearts.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
That makes sense. It's odd, though, that so many other things are commanded clearly, but this one seems to be just hinted at indirectly, and it almost always has to do with people's attitude toward it, and not God's (Ham and Noah being a possible exception). Adam and Eve felt shame for their nakedness after the fall, but God didn't seem to be bothered by it as if it was a sin. And it must not have been a sin before the fall.
Which is why I think modesty is a relative concept.
How much clothing is worn at any given time is directly related to the present company and culture.
I am modest as a courtesy to other people, and only in that sense is it unto the Lord. I don't think God cares one iota whether we are clothed or not, except as it affects others around us .
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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