The Times...They are a-Changin'

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I'm not sure this is true. Not unless they were raised in church. Otherwise, the hurting person will reach out so someONE in their life who has demonstrated God's love to them. A person. They don't care if you offer them the help they need while they are sitting in your living room.

I don't know, look at what happened on 9/11 I didn't hear of one house filling up with people because of the events that took place.

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by OnTheFritz

That is a very broad brush you are using. With all due respect, it's simply ignorant to claim that those of my generation are all "typically unproductive, have no capacity to create, live a self indulgent lifestyle, believe that something is owed to them, that government should take care of them, are lazy, not faithful, heavily in debt, and really affect no other lives."

You added the word "all" not me. What would be ignorant is to be blind to our current society. Sorry, but a very high percentage of today's 20 and 30 year old's are just down right flaky.

simply because they don't view things the way you do.

You are lacking the capacity to understand some simple statements. Nothing I said stated or implied that it was based upon agreeing with the way I do things.

And frankly, it's this "back in my day..." mindset that is unproductive and obnoxious enough to make the change worthwhile

Same thing I stated about not being flexible with the times and the moves of the Spirit...I guess you now agree with me.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a people-based set of loyalites vs.an organization-based one.

I don't disagree with that. It's the "loyalty" aspect I was focused on not the organization

For instance, I have worked with the same people for nearly 20 years because of personal friendships and loyalties that outlasted many of the organizations of which we were a part. We have seen the abuse that comes from organizations both corporate and religious. And while structure can be good, every once in a while, you need to tear it all down and start over. Clean out the cobwebs and remind those in charge that they are only there because the people put them there.

Organizations don't abuse they are structures. People abuse therefore the wrong person in authority in organizations or the wrong close friend can have the same devastating affect.

You as well as most deal with the fruit instead of the root.

[gloryseeker]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

Too many churches and congregations are ill prepared to move people from their past to their future.

I agree in concept, but because the "church" (assuming you are using that term as structure) doesn't not become qualified because the became "unchurched" just as the "congregation" is people so disassociated themselves from the congregation does not qualify them.

You are focused on the fruit instead of the root. YES, for the most part what is considered the Body of Christ is ill prepared to really help people so the focus should be getting people prepared.

I am like a tree planted. I don't exactly understand how or when that happened, nor do I understand exactly how I can still struggle, and fail, where I do and still be planted. But I do know that I am.

Interesting....Remember John John (JFK's kid) who flew his plane straight into the water? All the gauges on his panel showed he was headed straight towards the water, but he just knew he was flying straight.

You better know when and how you got planted and that nothing can move you

I'm definitely not planted within any walls. Some have made it pretty clear I'm not welcome.

What's one got to do with the other? There are places I'm not welcomed either but all that means is that is not the place for me.

I decided pretty early on that it's my problem and it's my responsibility to get to where I'm going. I don't claim a church, I don't claim an organization, because I can't risk falling with one of them or being crushed by one while it rises and I struggle to make the next rung of the ladder.

I am with you in not wanting to go down with a ship, but my strategy is different....I rather be connected to a ship that is sea worthy then to be treading water by myself

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

I don't know, look at what happened on 9/11 I didn't hear of one house filling up with people because of the events that took place.

Are you serious?

I just happened to be living in Orlando when 9/11 happened.

It was documented that so many folks turned to "church" and "religion" for assurance during that of trial.


The vandalism of an Islamic worship center and the murder of at least one Middle Eastern man was documented as well, in Orlando.

[OnTheFritz]

Originally Posted by gloryseeker

You added the word "all" not me. What would be ignorant is to be blind to our current society. Sorry, but a very high percentage of today's 20 and 30 year old's are just down right flaky.



You are lacking the capacity to understand some simple statements. Nothing I said stated or implied that it was based upon agreeing with the way I do things.




Same thing I stated about not being flexible with the times and the moves of the Spirit...I guess you now agree with me.




I don't disagree with that. It's the "loyalty" aspect I was focused on not the organization




Organizations don't abuse they are structures. People abuse therefore the wrong person in authority in organizations or the wrong close friend can have the same devastating affect.

You as well as most deal with the fruit instead of the root.

Can't understand your simple statements? Must be because I'm under 40, huh? It is quite easy, however, to understand your thinly veiled arrogance and know-it-all attitude. I see it all over your posts.

You implied "all", and have now shifted to "very high percentage". What a concession.

Moving on.

[EA]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1764I6JOmLI

I see the king of glory
Coming on the clouds with fire
The whole earth shakes
The whole earth shakes

Yeeeah

I see his love and mercy
Washing over all our sin
The people sing
The people sing

[Chorus]
Hosanna
Hosanna
Hosanna in the highest [x2]

I see a generation
Rising up to take their place
With selfless faith
With selfless faith

I see a near revival
Stirring as we pray and seek
We're on our knees
We're on our knees

[Chorus]

Heal my heart and make it clean
Open up my eyes to the things unseen
Show me how to love like you have loved me

Break my heart from what breaks yours
Everything I am for your kingdoms cause
As I go from nothing to
Eternity

[Chorus x2]

Hosanna in the highest

[freeatlast]

Darlene Zhech and Hillsong are great.
A very easy going sound.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Darlene Zhech and Hillsong are great.
A very easy going sound.

She was a speaker at some of the classes my wife took at Willow Creek last week. Kristin loved her.

[EA]

Carpenter, the topic of this thread is something that is on my mind almost 24/7.

God is doing a new thing. I want to be a part of it.

Real reformers are, more often than not, persecuted for their attempts at change.

I pray that the generation that follows me never has to deal with the issues my generation has.

IMO, we have been given a raw deal.

The generation before us (THE ELDERS) didn't want to let go of anything, and backed us into a no-win theological quandry.

The generation that is coming after us wants nothing to do with rules based religion. They are leaving it in droves.

Bridging these two group-thinks is much more than difficult.

[Hoovie]

EA, are you saying some things are less than compatible?