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Old 06-20-2009, 10:54 PM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: The Times...They are a-Changin'

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Originally Posted by Edward Anglin View Post
Carpenter, the topic of this thread is something that is on my mind almost 24/7.

God is doing a new thing. I want to be a part of it.

Real reformers are, more often than not, persecuted for their attempts at change.

I pray that the generation that follows me never has to deal with the issues my generation has.

IMO, we have been given a raw deal.

The generation before us (THE ELDERS) didn't want to let go of anything, and backed us into a no-win theological quandry.

The generation that is coming after us wants nothing to do with rules based religion. They are leaving it in droves.

Bridging these two group-thinks is much more than difficult.
I was in church a few weeks back and heard a pastor I truly love and respect preaching about how we need to win our world to Christ. He was crying and snotting all over the place. It was moving. He was also talking about how we need more churches and more efforts to reach the lost. Again, it was moving. But it was all a show. I think he means it on an emotional level... but when it comes down to where the rubber meets the road he doesn't mean what he's saying. Why? There are 5 men that I know of that are qualified to pastor who have served in his church for nearly 10-15. Of these five 2 have licenses. They have begged, pleaded, threatened, tried to negotiate, you name it... he will not release them. He keeps them jumping hoops with one ministry or another while the fire of their God given vision is dying inside them. I was in a men's group meeting and I just had to say something. The pastor made a remark about sending men of God and daughter churches, I just laughed a little and he asked me why I laughed. I said, "Because there are men in this church who are more than ready to start a daughter work under you... but you won't release them. As sure as I sit here right now, in two years, there will not be a daughter work and those very same men will be sitting on the very same pews just as frustrated as they are today... and there will not be a single daughter work." You could have heard a pen drop. He closed the meeting and asked to see me in his office. There he lectured me about respecting his "authority". I got the message. I've not done that kind of thing again. But... it's been five years. No daughter work. Those five men? Well 4 are still jumping through hoops and one actually left to follow the call of God without the Pastor's blessing.

They are going to die with their music inside them.
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Old 06-20-2009, 11:11 PM
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EA EA is offline
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Re: The Times...They are a-Changin'

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
I was in church a few weeks back and heard a pastor I truly love and respect preaching about how we need to win our world to Christ. He was crying and snotting all over the place. It was moving. He was also talking about how we need more churches and more efforts to reach the lost. Again, it was moving. But it was all a show. I think he means it on an emotional level... but when it comes down to where the rubber meets the road he doesn't mean what he's saying. Why? There are 5 men that I know of that are qualified to pastor who have served in his church for nearly 10-15. Of these five 2 have licenses. They have begged, pleaded, threatened, tried to negotiate, you name it... he will not release them. He keeps them jumping hoops with one ministry or another while the fire of their God given vision is dying inside them. I was in a men's group meeting and I just had to say something. The pastor made a remark about sending men of God and daughter churches, I just laughed a little and he asked me why I laughed. I said, "Because there are men in this church who are more than ready to start a daughter work under you... but you won't release them. As sure as I sit here right now, in two years, there will not be a daughter work and those very same men will be sitting on the very same pews just as frustrated as they are today... and there will not be a single daughter work." You could have heard a pen drop. He closed the meeting and asked to see me in his office. There he lectured me about respecting his "authority". I got the message. I've not done that kind of thing again. But... it's been five years. No daughter work. Those five men? Well 4 are still jumping through hoops and one actually left to follow the call of God without the Pastor's blessing.

They are going to die with their music inside them.
I see this type of thing often.

Who is more to blame, the pastor, or the men who lack the ..... to get out on their own - with or without some sort of mystic "blessing?"

Real leaders find a way to live out their calling.

And btw, I am not excusing that pastor.
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The world has lost the power to blush over its vice; the Church has lost her power to weep over it.

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Old 06-20-2009, 11:31 PM
berkeley berkeley is offline
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Re: The Times...They are a-Changin'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Anglin View Post
I see this type of thing often.

Who is more to blame, the pastor, or the men who lack the ..... to get out on their own - with or without some sort of mystic "blessing?"

Real leaders find a way to live out their calling.

And btw, I am not excusing that pastor.
And it all goes back to "submit to my authority"
and "if I feel that it's time for you to move on, I'll let you know"

this one is my fav:
"If I guide you in the wrong direction, God will honor you and bless you for respecting my authority"
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