Not to answer every nuance but a general answer is this:
1. The local church is instituted by God and the authority is authorized by scripture. Thus passages like Heb. 13:7,17,21 applies. 2. NO scripture teaches or validates a organization thus the offices are unscriptural so there is NO divine authority being disobeyed.
Apples and Oranges if you please.
Hmmmm No scripture teaches that men must shave but you impose this doctrine on the men of your church.
That is an unscriptural teaching, therefore no divine authority is being disobeyed by a man who comes to your church with facial hair.
Sorry, don't mean to hijack a thread but when I see such inconsistency, i can't resist.
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God has lavished his love upon me.
Sorry Steve, should have said imposed in the past tense.
Glad to know, that you are no longer pastoring, that you would allow facial hair on men if you went back to pastoring, since there is clearly no bible that even remotely would give you such divine authority.
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God has lavished his love upon me.
Sorry Steve, should have said imposed in the past tense.
Glad to know, that you are no longer pastoring, that you would allow facial hair on men if you went back to pastoring, since there is clearly no bible that even remotely would give you such divine authority.
Preachers are not only told to preach the Word but also the explain the such likes.
I understand what you are saying however these are the facts:.
Quote:
1. Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles called by God and vindicated by supernatural signs and wonders.
True, but Paul was also under the authority of the apostolic council in Jerusalem, to wit Acts 15
Quote:
3. Organizational offices are MANMADE not God instituted thus they have NO divine authority.
True: but when one joins an organization then that organization becomes the authority to which one has submitted oneself and is thereby etically bound to follow that authority except when to do so would jeopardize ones walk with God.
Quote:
4. The ministry are to submit to the ministry NOT some ecclesiastical system that has NO divine authority.
True: except that what minister do you know who has submitted to the authority of another minister and who follows that other minister even when they are in disagreement with him?
What has been my experience is that strong minded leaders who do not want to submit to another leader will at some point repeat the mistakes of the leader they would not submit to.
True, but Paul was also under the authority of the apostolic council in Jerusalem, to wit Acts 15
True: but when one joins an organization then that organization becomes the authority to which one has submitted oneself and is thereby etically bound to follow that authority except when to do so would jeopardize ones walk with God.
True: except that what minister do you know who has submitted to the authority of another minister and who follows that other minister even when they are in disagreement with him?
What has been my experience is that strong minded leaders who do not want to submit to another leader will at some point repeat the mistakes of the leader they would not submit to.
Not to answer every nuance but a general answer is this:
1. The local church is instituted by God and the authority is authorized by scripture. Thus passages like Heb. 13:7,17,21 applies.
2. NO scripture teaches or validates a organization thus the offices are unscriptural so there is NO divine authority being disobeyed.
Apples and Oranges if you please.
Firstly, I'm encouraged by 1 Cor's question. Who-da-thunk-it?
Next, there is something of an heirarchy already established even in NT times. Peter went to the apostles in Jerusalem to validate the experience of the Gentiles in Acts 10. Paul conferred with and received the "laying on of hands" (a subordinate role) from the apostles and prophets in Jerusalem.
It is a complex matter, but not one that is as cut and dried as your "apples and oranges" would seem to suggest. I'm almost certain that you recognize a series of subjection and oversight among the brethren, don't you?
It's the appearance of a "fast and loose" type of committment being displayed by some that gives rise to these questions. I'm afraid 1 Cor will probably go a long time without an answer.
double standard exists, the laity is held hostage by these guys, they all forget the premise of the church, it is a voluntary organization, we either attend or not by our own free will, dt
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A product of a pentecostal raisin, I am a hard man, just ask my children
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