I don't think we can say they were harrassing him.
Other possible scenerios. He refused to prove who he was at first, being irate that cops would come and question him about trying to break into his own home.
He did show them his ID and the cops would have just left it at that but the man became abusive
BTW Disorderly conduct
Police may use a disorderly conduct charge to keep the peace when people are behaving in a disruptive manner to themselves or others, but present no serious public danger. Disorderly conduct is typically classified as a misdemeanor.
I know that there are plenty of possible scenarios and I do look forward to finding out more. I'm just saying that if he did indeed demosntrate that he was the homeowner, I don't see why he would be arrested even if he wasn't polite.
Given the nature of the call, I don't see how the police would even approach it as a hard and fast "crime in progress" call. Now if the alarm was going off, that's a different story. If someone was saying "somebody is breaking into my house, that's a different story. If someone was saying "I know the homeowner and this is definitely not the homeowner", that's a different story. At the most, all that was justified here was a knock on the door and a courtesy check. I don't see why the cops were even in the house to begin with.
As far as disorderly conduct, I think the key phrase is "behaving in a disruptive manner". There is nothing to indicate that he was behaving in a disruptive manner before the officers arrived, and nothing to suggest that he would be a threat to anyone after they left.
Unless he physically accosted them, I think cooler heads should have apologized and defused the situation.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
I know that there are plenty of possible scenarios and I do look forward to finding out more. I'm just saying that if he did indeed demosntrate that he was the homeowner, I don't see why he would be arrested even if he wasn't polite.
Given the nature of the call, I don't see how the police would even approach it as a hard and fast "crime in progress" call. Now if the alarm was going off, that's a different story. If someone was saying "somebody is breaking into my house, that's a different story. If someone was saying "I know the homeowner and this is definitely not the homeowner", that's a different story. At the most, all that was justified here was a knock on the door and a courtesy check. I don't see why the cops were even in the house to begin with.
As far as disorderly conduct, I think the key phrase is "behaving in a disruptive manner". There is nothing to indicate that he was behaving in a disruptive manner before the officers arrived, and nothing to suggest that he would be a threat to anyone after they left.
Unless he physically accosted them, I think cooler heads should have apologized and defused the situation.
According to the Police report the man was irate over being asked for ID....didn't immediately provide it because he was agitated and that went on for a little while. The disruptive behavior started when he was asked for ID. Read the police report and the words of the cop. They will do that no matter what race you are.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I think the reason I am suspicious, though I want to try to be objective and clearly it's hard is....in this day and age of liberal activist college professors...I can see him honestly shouting to others that this was all about racism...
The news says there was a crowd growing. I guarantee you it does not matter what color you are, if you are yelling in that way and not calming down when police ask you too you will be arrested
I think he really strongly believes he was asked for his ID because he is black.
Here is another question...if a cop in the same situation asked a white home owner for HIS id would that home owner have become irate? Yes he may have...if he continued to be belligerent he might have been arrested too.
However he'd have no excuse to scream about racism...it might be more along the lines of "Im a tax payer, this is against my constitutional rights" etc etc....
Maybe what plays into this is not that the man was black, but that he was a college professor of Racial studies? Maybe a little paranoia perhaps like the white guy thinks the government is coming to take his house and black helicopters are flying overhead?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
According to the Police report the man was irate over being asked for ID....didn't immediately provide it because he was agitated and that went on for a little while. The disruptive behavior started when he was asked for ID. Read the police report and the words of the cop. They will do that no matter what race you are.
Prax, I'm just saying that being irate in your own house should not be an arrestable offense particularly once the police officer realizes that he was actually mistaken. (unless of course you pose a domestic threat to someone else in the house)
I know that there will be conflicting reports about how identification was produced, but everybody agrees that he did identify himself.
I have seen officers yelled at even out in the public, by people who were stopped for speeding, by people who are demonstrating, etc...
I've seen officers called pigs and worse by people who were guilty of a whole lot more than coming home.
At the end of the day, I have yet to read an arrestable offense. I will wait and see what else happens. Ultimately, if the legal system thinks he was actually guilty of breaking the law, he will be charged and we can all see it beyond a reasonable doubt.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Prax, I'm just saying that being irate in your own house should not be an arrestable offense particularly once the police officer realizes that he was actually mistaken. (unless of course you pose a domestic threat to someone else in the house)
I know that there will be conflicting reports about how identification was produced, but everybody agrees that he did identify himself.
You know if two persons, a husband and wife, are arguing loudly in their house so the neighbors can hear, the cops can arrest them for domestic violence? Read the report, he was not merely irate. He was arrested on the porch. The cop asked the man to go outside and provide ID. If there is a possibility of a break in, a lone cop is not going to mingle around and ask for ID because there could be others in the house. He asked the man to step outside and the man was not cooperative it seems. Sorry but yes that can get you into trouble.
Quote:
I have seen officers yelled at even out in the public, by people who were stopped for speeding, by people who are demonstrating, etc...
I've seen officers called pigs and worse by people who were guilty of a whole lot more than coming home.
It depends on the situations. Every situation is different. This cop was initially alone. The man was uncooperative and yelling. The cop asked him to step outside and to calm down. The man continued to yell and there was a crowd growing. Under those situations I have seen cops take the person into custody and place them in the squad car and either deal with the crowd or get out of there.
Again you make it seem like the cops were doing what they did with the knowledge of a man merely coming home to his house. No. They did not know that.
Quote:
At the end of the day, I have yet to read an arrestable offense. I will wait and see what else happens. Ultimately, if the legal system thinks he was actually guilty of breaking the law, he will be charged and we can all see it beyond a reasonable doubt.
Cops arrest people all the time if they have reasonable cause and later on the charges are dropped. It's the nature of law enforcement.
From what I have quoted so far I do see reasonable cause. Just because some cops on video are a lot more patient does not mean it is still not an arrestable offense. In fact I have seen cops on video where they COULD have arrested someone but did not. Just because they did not does not mean the behavior is not an arrestable offense
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
You know if two persons, a husband and wife, are arguing loudly in their house so the neighbors can hear, the cops can arrest them for domestic violence? Read the report, he was not merely irate. He was arrested on the porch. The cop asked the man to go outside and provide ID. If there is a possibility of a break in, a lone cop is not going to mingle around and ask for ID because there could be others in the house. He asked the man to step outside and the man was not cooperative it seems. Sorry but yes that can get you into trouble.
It depends on the situations. Every situation is different. This cop was initially alone. The man was uncooperative and yelling. The cop asked him to step outside and to calm down. The man continued to yell and there was a crowd growing. Under those situations I have seen cops take the person into custody and place them in the squad car and either deal with the crowd or get out of there.
Again you make it seem like the cops were doing what they did with the knowledge of a man merely coming home to his house. No. They did not know that.
Cops arrest people all the time if they have reasonable cause and later on the charges are dropped. It's the nature of law enforcement.
From what I have quoted so far I do see reasonable cause. Just because some cops on video are a lot more patient does not mean it is still not an arrestable offense. In fact I have seen cops on video where they COULD have arrested someone but did not. Just because they did not does not mean the behavior is not an arrestable offense
Prax, I'll read more info as it is released. I know we can go around in circles. I'm just saying that at some point before he was arrested, he did in fact provide satisfacory ID. The two sides will undoubtedly present their sides differently, but he did at some point before his arrest identify himself as the homeowner and someone innocent of any wrong doing. At that point, the officer was operating "with the knowledge of a man merely coming home to his house". At that point even if he is irate, you apologize for the mistake and leave in my opinion. I have not seen anything that would suggest that he would have been a danger to anyone at that point.
I guess I'm just not sure who was being "Protected and Served" by his arrest.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Prax, I'll read more info as it is released. I know we can go around in circles. I'm just saying that at some point before he was arrested, he did in fact provide satisfacory ID. The two sides will undoubtedly present their sides differently, but he did at some point before his arrest identify himself as the homeowner and someone innocent of any wrong doing. At that point, the officer was operating "with the knowledge of a man merely coming home to his house". At that point even if he is irate, you apologize for the mistake and leave in my opinion. I have not seen anything that would suggest that he would have been a danger to anyone at that point.
I guess I'm just not sure who was being "Protected and Served" by his arrest.
You're right about the ID thing, at least according to the news accounts. But he wasn't arrested for questions about the ID or even pushing on the door to his own home.
The prof seems to have been yelling at the cop inside the house. After the cop left and appeared to have walked away from the confrontation, the prof followed him outside and involved hmself in behavior that was "disruptive" and "disorderly." There were many witnesses to that behavior and it was for this that the prof was arrested.
Police are given latitude to make discretionary arrests and to even simply "hold" someone who is behaving in a disorderly fashion.
You're right about the ID thing, at least according to the news accounts. But he wasn't arrested for questions about the ID or even pushing on the door to his own home.
The prof seems to have been yelling at the cop inside the house. After the cop left and appeared to have walked away from the confrontation, the prof followed him outside and involved hmself in behavior that was "disruptive" and "disorderly." There were many witnesses to that behavior and it was for this that the prof was arrested.
Police are given latitude to make discretionary arrests and to even simply "hold" someone who is behaving in a disorderly fashion.
Pel, I guess we'll just have to see how it all plays out. It was my understanding, however, that it was the officer who asked the professor to step outside after he had already produced the identification.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Prax, I'll read more info as it is released. I know we can go around in circles. I'm just saying that at some point before he was arrested, he did in fact provide satisfacory ID. The two sides will undoubtedly present their sides differently, but he did at some point before his arrest identify himself as the homeowner and someone innocent of any wrong doing. At that point, the officer was operating "with the knowledge of a man merely coming home to his house". At that point even if he is irate, you apologize for the mistake and leave in my opinion. I have not seen anything that would suggest that he would have been a danger to anyone at that point.
I guess I'm just not sure who was being "Protected and Served" by his arrest.
According to the report:
After the officer had the id in his hand and knew he was affiliated with Harvard, he called the university police. Then he radioed his findings to the ECC and prepared to leave. Gates then asked again for his name, he tried to give it to him when Gates started calling him a racist officer. This happened twice. The third time he told him he was going outside and would answer any further questions out there. Due to Gates yelling and the acoustics in the house making it worse he couldn't communicate with the ECC inside, so he went outside. He warned Gates twice that his behavior was out of hand before he was arrested. He had the handcuffs removed from behind his back and handcuffed him in front because they were hurting him. He also went in and got his cane for him to walk with. He then asked him if he would like them to secure his front door. Interestingly enough he told the officer that the door was unsecurable because of a previous break in attempt. A maintenance man from Harvard showed up that Gates was familiar with so the officer asked if he would be comfortable with that man securing his door. Gates agreed to this. Gates then requested that he be transported to the station in a police cruiser.
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