Local Church BODY

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I never said I do not recognize your sisterhood if you remember I suggested a church to you and took time to speak to the pastor about you. I am concerned about your eternity. I have read the Book and the future is not bright for those who reject Biblical leadership and the church to go on explorations not endorsed by the Bible. After seeing folks many whom I loved turn out shipwrecked their families destroyed and many getting involved in some way out false doctrine down the road the signs are all the same. No pastor wants to pastor a person whose brain is in neutral and is blind. That is a wrong perception but pastors do get alarmed when those under their care become elusive and unpredictable. There is nothing as frustrating as trying to save someone from self-destruction who does not have a clue that is the trail they are taking. Paul speaks of those 'who oppose themselves' saving those folks is nearly impossible and very heatbreaking to a pastor who loves those in his charge. We have had some strong bantering in the preceeding posts but now I am opening my heart. It is like being a doctor that cares for a patient and the tests come back bad and the patient is determine not to take the treatment. But honestly the patient is NOT smarter than the doctor on this matter. This is the doctor's life. All you folks go ahead a butcher my openess but I am afraid for you I do NOT hate or dispise you I hate what is going to destroy you and your families.

Brother Epley has expressed this very well.

What you may or may not realize or believe, Michelle, is that we have seen lots of folks say the exact same things you are saying, and we have seen where that road leads.

It is heartbreaking to a man who cares about people to see some who insist on re-inventing the wheel, not realizing that they aren't following some new path of divine revelation, but rather an old tried and true deception.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Brother Epley has expressed this very well.

What you may or may not realize or believe, Michelle, is that we have seen lots of folks say the exact same things you are saying, and we have seen where that road leads.

It is heartbreaking to a man who cares about people to see some who insist on re-inventing the wheel, not realizing that they aren't following some new path of divine revelation, but rather an old tried and true deception.

Sigh...this saddens me Bro. C.

I am not trying for a new revelation or trying to "reinvent the wheel", I simply want to get to know Jesus, and try to figure out why I should even want to follow him.

I thought that was a noble cause. You all make sound like if I really get to know Jesus, without focusing on the rules, that i will be lost. That saddens me. There seems to be no room in the apostolic church for questions or doubts, or even Jesus.

I could go back today, this moment. Stick myself back in the little box, start following all the rules, go to church 3 times a week, and be the perfect little apostolic saint, but without Jesus what in the world does that matter???

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Michlow

Sigh...this saddens me Bro. C.

I am not trying for a new revelation or trying to "reinvent the wheel", I simply want to get to know Jesus, and try to figure out why I should even want to follow him.

I thought that was a noble cause. You all make sound like if I really get to know Jesus, without focusing on the rules, that i will be lost. That saddens me. There seems to be no room in the apostolic church for questions or doubts, or even Jesus.

I could go back today, this moment. Stick myself back in the little box, start following all the rules, go to church 3 times a week, and be the perfect little apostolic saint, but without Jesus what in the world does that matter???

I said nothing, absolutely nothing, about rules.

I just don't see how you or anyone can figure on getting to know Jesus and bypass the very things He has set in order to help you along the way.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

I said nothing, absolutely nothing, about rules.

I just don't see how you or anyone can figure on getting to know Jesus and bypass the very things He has set in order to help you along the way.

Until I trust and love Him, why would I care about his rules??? That is my point! If I don't know who he is, or even like the guy, why would I want to listen to him?

How can I trust or follow anyone else when I can't trust or follow him?

I have tried it your way. I have listened to several different men, all of whom couldn't agree or told me contradicting things, or just plain told me things that were wrong (like I should divorce my husband and find myself a good Christian man, for one).

And you may not have said anything about rules...but what exactly am I supposed to "obey" from the Pastor if not "the rules"?

I am starting to get frustrated! I feel like you are all asking me to do calculus, when I haven't even figured out basic math.

I understand the concern. Trust me, I have it coming out of my ears. Through PM's and emails and phone calls. And I appreciate it, I really do. I am happy that you guys care about me, and are worried about my spiritual condition; but let me ask this: If I was a brand new person coming to your church, who only had a vague and misrepresented view of Jesus, would you start hounding me on pastor authority, and doctrine? Or would you just try to show me Jesus?

You would think that I am advocating some gross sin or immorality or turning into that carlton pearson guy or some other fruit job, when all I am really asking is to find out who Jesus is.

Am I really doing something crazy in wanting to serve a God that I love and trust, and not one who I think is a BFM?

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Michlow

Until I trust and love Him, why would I care about his rules??? That is my point! If I don't know who he is, or even like the guy, why would I want to listen to him?

How can I trust or follow anyone else when I can't trust or follow him?

I have tried it your way. I have listened to several different men, all of whom couldn't agree or told me contradicting things, or just plain told me things that were wrong (like I should divorce my husband and find myself a good Christian man, for one).

And you may not have said anything about rules...but what exactly am I supposed to "obey" from the Pastor if not "the rules"?

I am starting to get frustrated! I feel like you are all asking me to do calculus, when I haven't even figured out basic math.

I understand the concern. Trust me, I have it coming out of my ears. Through PM's and emails and phone calls. And I appreciate it, I really do. I am happy that you guys care about me, and are worried about my spiritual condition; but let me ask this: If I was a brand new person coming to your church, who only had a vague and misrepresented view of Jesus, would you start hounding me on pastor authority, and doctrine? Or would you just try to show me Jesus?

You would think that I am advocating some gross sin or immorality or turning into that carlton pearson guy or some other fruit job, when all I am really asking is to find out who Jesus is.

Am I really doing something crazy in wanting to serve a God that I love and trust, and not one who I think is a BFM?

Mich, good heart felt post.

[nathan_slatter]

Originally Posted by Michlow

You would think that I am advocating some gross sin or immorality or turning into that carlton pearson guy or some other fruit job, when all I am really asking is to find out who Jesus is.

Sometimes Jesus comes with a bunch of unnecessary baggage. From preemptive ideologies to complete misunderstanding to complete misinterpretation. Jesus, often, comes with baggage. The idea is to drop all of the baggage realizing that it is our own, given to us by everyone that has influenced our spirituality. In the end, following Jesus is a personal quest -- one that can, and should be, traveled among a crowd but, many times, even within the crowd, the quest can be lonely.

Keep seeking Jesus, you'll find him. He said so.

[Sherri]

Michelle--I'll be praying for you. I think you're on a search for truth, and you will find it if you listen to God and God alone. That doesn't mean you don't need a good church, because I am a big church advocate - you know that. God will lead you to the right house and you will once again be in fellowship, with the people where He leads you.

If God leads you back to a UPC church, by all means, run to it and don't look back. But if He leads you elsewhere, listen to His voice and not the voice of men. God is your ultimate authority, but I do believe you need the voice of a shepherd in your life too.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Michelle--I'll be praying for you. I think you're on a search for truth, and you will find it if you listen to God and God alone. That doesn't mean you don't need a good church, because I am a big church advocate - you know that. God will lead you to the right house and you will once again be in fellowship, with the people where He leads you.

If God leads you back to a UPC church, by all means, run to it and don't look back. But if He leads you elsewhere, listen to His voice and not the voice of men. God is your ultimate authority, but I do believe you need the voice of a shepherd in your life too.

I always appreciate all the prayers I can get!

I am still currently attending a UPC church, though I have repeatedly been informed that my twice a month is not good enough

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by nathan_slatter

Sometimes Jesus comes with a bunch of unnecessary baggage. From preemptive ideologies to complete misunderstanding to complete misinterpretation. Jesus, often, comes with baggage. The idea is to drop all of the baggage realizing that it is our own, given to us by everyone that has influenced our spirituality. In the end, following Jesus is a personal quest -- one that can, and should be, traveled among a crowd but, many times, even within the crowd, the quest can be lonely.

Keep seeking Jesus, you'll find him. He said so.

Thanks Nate

It's no surprise that I agree with you, since we share the same brain