Do You Believe and/or Teach that Standards are Heaven-Hell Issues?

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I think that I coming from the perspective of how we handle the body.

Many times I hear it preached that we are quick to put our foot in the neck of our brother when he is down. In other words, a young man who was raised in the church and got out when he came of age was telling me that when you come back you are judged and perceived to be the person you always were before repentance. Your past taints your future. It is a hard thing to get up and keep on walking with this attitude surrounding you.

Now, I have watched this and found it to be true in many instances. So, I wonder, when we preach mercy, grace and forgiveness, why do we withhold that from our own brethren?

This gives us the reputation of "kick them when they are down" and then lends the credence that we are more of "judgment" than we are of "mercy".

I believe this is where I am going with this. I appreciate your patience with me as I express my thoughts and bounce them off of you.

I do understand better what you're talking about now, but looked back at the "greasy grace" question and wonder how this applies?

But, on the above..........

I am guilty of what you say regarding not forgetting about a person's past. I fight it constantly when thinking about certain people in our congregation. The sad thing, but the thing that slaps me upside the head, is that I was "one of those". I even stood up in front of our church not long after returning from my 20 year backslide and said that some of them wouldn't like me if I told them some of the things I had done. I truly meant it then, but realize how true it is today. We all are afflicted with it......even the most tenured saint and pastor. Some just get over it quicker and easier, I guess. I sure do pray that I can someday!!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by OGIA

I do understand better what you're talking about now, but looked back at the "greasy grace" question and wonder how this applies?

But, on the above..........

I am guilty of what you say regarding not forgetting about a person's past. I fight it constantly when thinking about certain people in our congregation. The sad thing, but the thing that slaps me upside the head, is that I was "one of those". I even stood up in front of our church not long after returning from my 20 year backslide and said that some of them wouldn't like me if I told them some of the things I had done. I truly meant it then, but realize how true it is today. We all are afflicted with it......even the most tenured saint and pastor. Some just get over it quicker and easier, I guess. I sure do pray that I can someday!!

I know what you are saying about finding it hard to forget another's past. I think what shook me out of that was when my daughter went out and did her own thing. I didn't know if the phone rang whether or not the highway patrol was wanting to beckon me to the mortuary. Very hard times. What I learned was to allow the Lord to lead my words in prayer and watch Him do the work. She and her husband are serving God faithfully.

I believe this is something we are not patient to wait on when dealing with church people. Sometimes people need, and again I am not advocating permission for it, to make mistakes to find out that is not what they want. In other words, some people can only learn by error and we have to note these people and be careful with them. I hate to lose someone by not being patient enough to see the power of God take hold of their heart and turn them around. It's much more powerful and brings the Word of God down in a more literal manner when we watch Him do the turning and not our words that we sometimes use with our children. LOL! "You better hope that God....." You know what I'm saying. LOL!

The Prodigal Son's father, IMO, knew that this son would need to "hoe his own row" before he would straighten himself out. He was a wise man.

Now, I am looking at "greasy grace" and "no mercy and judgment" standing here wanting to know - What does the churched and non-churched people receive? What will they receive? My guess would be mercy and understanding.

I am not talking about color coating sin. You can speak and "read the mail" in such a way that it cannot be denied that God was in the house, staring at your heart and laying it open before you. But, if we bash it to pieces with our words and impatience to get that thing fixed, you can bet that person will not have their heart put back in place properly and will continue to struggle.

So, when I discuss "greasy grace" I am also looking at "judgment and mercy" knowing that without a sword bathed in love before you speak you will have set a precedent in the hearts of the people to "swipe" before they feel after the thing in the spirit. That would be Peter's impetuous example.

Just random thoughts, which may not come across as clear as how my mind is churning. lol!

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I know what you are saying about finding it hard to forget another's past. I think what shook me out of that was when my daughter went out and did her own thing. I didn't know if the phone rang whether or not the highway patrol was wanting to beckon me to the mortuary. Very hard times. What I learned was to allow the Lord to lead my words in prayer and watch Him do the work. She and her husband are serving God faithfully.

I believe this is something we are not patient to wait on when dealing with church people. Sometimes people need, and again I am not advocating permission for it, to make mistakes to find out that is not what they want. In other words, some people can only learn by error and we have to note these people and be careful with them. I hate to lose someone by not being patient enough to see the power of God take hold of their heart and turn them around. It's much more powerful and brings the Word of God down in a more literal manner when we watch Him do the turning and not our words that we sometimes use with our children. LOL! "You better hope that God....." You know what I'm saying. LOL!

The Prodigal Son's father, IMO, knew that this son would need to "hoe his own row" before he would straighten himself out. He was a wise man.

Now, I am looking at "greasy grace" and "no mercy and judgment" standing here wanting to know - What does the churched and non-churched people receive? What will they receive? My guess would be mercy and understanding.

I am not talking about color coating sin. You can speak and "read the mail" in such a way that it cannot be denied that God was in the house, staring at your heart and laying it open before you. But, if we bash it to pieces with our words and impatience to get that thing fixed, you can bet that person will not have their heart put back in place properly and will continue to struggle.
So, when I discuss "greasy grace" I am also looking at "judgment and mercy" knowing that without a sword bathed in love before you speak you will have set a precedent in the hearts of the people to "swipe" before they feel after the thing in the spirit. That would be Peter's impetuous example.

Just random thoughts, which may not come across as clear as how my mind is churning. lol!

I hear ya and agree. I was using the term "greasy grace" to apply more to the methodology that some "preachers" use (Beth Moore being the example a few pages back) to convince the lost that they are saved. Seems most of her messages have nothing to do with sacrifice or repentance (which is a form of sacrifice). All I hear these women returning to work talking about is how they were blessed and how they were empowered and how Beth showed them how to live a positive life. And before anyone jumps on that, there's nothing wrong with it. But, "greasy grace" really goes no further. It leaves them stuck in that mindset too many times and someone who has truth has a very hard time breaking that bondage of belief.

But, I guess as long as she's preaching Jesus Christ, there will be some who respond and find this beautiful Apostolic truth!!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by OGIA

I hear ya and agree. I was using the term "greasy grace" to apply more to the methodology that some "preachers" use (Beth Moore being the example a few pages back) to convince the lost that they are saved. Seems most of her messages have nothing to do with sacrifice or repentance (which is a form of sacrifice). All I hear these women returning to work talking about is how they were blessed and how they were empowered and how Beth showed them how to live a positive life. And before anyone jumps on that, there's nothing wrong with it. But, "greasy grace" really goes no further. It leaves them stuck in that mindset too many times and someone who has truth has a very hard time breaking that bondage of belief.

But, I guess as long as she's preaching Jesus Christ, there will be some who respond and find this beautiful Apostolic truth!!

Ogia,
Now that we have run the gamut (lol), I want to especially address the "greasy grace".

How I look at that is - If anyone is teaching what they know or believe to be true for them, than I leave that alone. The Word says, "They that hunger and thirst for righteous shall be filled." Hungering and thirsting are large definitions.

If I had not been raised Catholic, I may not have had an awareness of right or wrong doing in sinning against the Lord. I may have learned the proper way to act in society, but my training wouldn't have opened my mind and heart to know the Lord.

I remember as a child watching "The Ten Commandments" and seeing Moses kneel before that bush. I wanted to know God that way as a child. I wasn't aware until I was filled with His Spirit that it was attainable.

My sister and her husband are Baptist. They both teach Sunday School and are very strict with what their children can view on Video and t.v. is hardly ever something they turn on. She is doing the best she knows. I see her hungering and thirsting and so I wait for the right time. I don't belittle what she has.

To some, I had nothing as a Catholic, but when I left home at 18 I attended church every Sunday. I prayed every night. One night I was so unhappy that I said, "Jesus, please don't get mad at me for not saying my prayers. I just need someone to talk to." I was afraid that God was mad that I didn't address Him and say my Hail Mary's. (lol) My heart was hungry and I knew where to go. I didn't find salvation after that night for 8 more years.

Having said all of that. I can't throw "greasy grace" around with carelessness. It is as bad to them to see "judgment without mercy" as much as we don't want them to settle for less than what we have experienced.

God is the only one that knows the heart of any man. I certainly would never want anyone that doesn't know full truth to ever hear me belittle their experience as I am sure we are in agreement on all these points.

Now, I see people that are not in agreement with keeping standards. Some have left the organization. I have no problem with that. My best friend of 15 years sits next to me in church upholding no dress code but modesty. She cuts her hair and is just as sensitive to the move of God as anyone else. She doesn't try to get me to change and I don't try to get her too, either. We talk about it and respect each other.

I will stand alone before God someday - alone. I owe nothing to anyone, but Jesus Christ.

God bless and thanks for letting me ramble with you.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I can't throw "greasy grace" around with carelessness. It is as bad to them to see "judgment without mercy" as much as we don't want them to settle for less than what we have experienced.

God is the only one that knows the heart of any man. I certainly would never want anyone that doesn't know full truth to ever hear me belittle their experience as I am sure we are in agreement on all these points.

Now, I see people that are not in agreement with keeping standards. Some have left the organization. I have no problem with that. My best friend of 15 years sits next to me in church upholding no dress code but modesty. She cuts her hair and is just as sensitive to the move of God as anyone else. She doesn't try to get me to change and I don't try to get her too, either. We talk about it and respect each other.

I will stand alone before God someday - alone. I owe nothing to anyone, but Jesus Christ.

PO, This post is awesome!

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I am sure we are in agreement on all these points.

God bless and thanks for letting me ramble with you.

Yes, we do agree, PO; and thank you for rambling. You sound like a young version of Sis. Alvear.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by OGIA

Yes, we do agree, PO; and thank you for rambling. You sound like a young version of Sis. Alvear.

Wouldn't that be nice. You reminded me of a time I just didn't know how God could use me. There was a petite, quiet, lovely older women in our church. I told the Lord, "I can never be like her!" He said, "I can use what I've got."

Whew, sweet relief!!

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Wouldn't that be nice. You reminded me of a time I just didn't know how God could use me. There was a petite, quiet, lovely older women in our church. I told the Lord, "I can never be like her!" He said, "I can use what I've got."

Whew, sweet relief!!

I KNOW the feeling!

I have to add something to my comment about you and Sis. Alvear. I don't have a clue how young she is or how young YOU are, PO. I didn't mean to insinuate that you were younger and she older. But, I get the sense that Sis. Alvear is a bit older. If she's not physically, she sure is spiritually!!


Lord, please help me out of this mess. I should know better than to talk to another woman about her age!!

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by OGIA

Yes, we do agree, PO; and thank you for rambling. You sound like a young version of Sis. Alvear.

PO, in my opinion, this is the ultimate compliment!!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Sherri

PO, in my opinion, this is the ultimate compliment!!

If only it were true, Sherri!