I agree. But what about newbies to the faith who come here?
Timmy is a wonderful person, for sure. But would a pastor, let's say, really want someone going to all the saints in the church and asking them all these sorts of questions that are meant to inspire doubt in the bible? Just asking. I mean, it's like, "Think of this..." and it is intended to get people thinking of an alleged implication that would cause one to conclude the bible cannot be true due to that implication.
Let me ask you this, Mike. From what I gather, you are not a UPCer or in any of the groups similar to the UPC. I can't say for a certainty, but I would assume that you occasionally participate in discussions that are contrary to the UPC-type tenets. For example, salvation at repentance and the unnecessary dress codes. Again, I can't bet my life on it, but I think I may have just described two of your beliefs.
I suspect you have propagated those two ideals here on the forum. So here's the question....what do you think a UPC pastor would think of you if one of his members were here potentially being swayed by your opinions? Certainly, if you were in the congregation doing this, he would stop you and/or ask you to leave. And I doubt that pastor would want his member being influenced by your teachings.
Let me ask you this, Mike. From what I gather, you are not a UPCer or in any of the groups similar to the UPC. I can't say for a certainty, but I would assume that you occasionally participate in discussions that are contrary to the UPC-type tenets. For example, salvation at repentance and the unnecessary dress codes. Again, I can't bet my life on it, but I think I may have just described two of your beliefs.
I preach all of Acts 2:38 for salvation. What God wants to do with those who do not obey all Acts 2:38 is up to Him. I do not judge them.
I disagree with dress standards. Yes, except JUST BE MODEST!
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I suspect you have propagated those two ideals here on the forum.
Since I do not believe in "one step", I did not preach against Acts 2:38 here. But I have stated dress standards are error, however it is not a salvational issue unless a person thinks the way they dress should be added to Acts 2:38 for salvation.
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So here's the question....what do you think a UPC pastor would think of you if one of his members were here potentially being swayed by your opinions? Certainly, if you were in the congregation doing this, he would stop you and/or ask you to leave. And I doubt that pastor would want his member being influenced by your teachings.
Just a thought.
When it comes to standards, I do disagree with them. But they are not salvational as most standard-keeping people will propose. Some claim they may be salvational, but I think they are a minority. However, comparing someone who is trying to persuade people about the entire bible being wrong is a far cry from someone proposing that dress standards are not salvation. I think most would agree.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
I preach all of Acts 2:38 for salvation. What God wants to do with those who do not obey all Acts 2:38 is up to Him. I do not judge them.
I disagree with dress standards. Yes, except JUST BE MODEST!
Since I do not believe in "one step", I did not preach against Acts 2:38 here. But I have stated dress standards are error, however it is not a salvational issue unless a person thinks the way they dress should be added to Acts 2:38 for salvation.
When it comes to standards, I do disagree with them. But they are not salvational as most standard-keeping people will propose. Some claim they may be salvational, but I think they are a minority. However, comparing someone who is trying to persuade people about the entire bible being wrong is a far cry from someone proposing that dress standards are not salvation. I think most would agree.
I don't say the entire Bible is wrong. It has good wisdom in it, especially some of Christ's teachings. I am skeptical that it is inspired by God, and that is infallible.
Just to clarify.
As far as persuading goes, what I'm trying to do is provoke thought, and defense of beliefs. It seems to me that a lot of people simply believe what they are told they must believe, often without realizing or admitting all the implications of the doctrines. Also, sometimes their actions and speech betray their true beliefs, indicating that they don't really believe some of the things they say they do.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I don't say the entire Bible is wrong. It has good wisdom in it, especially some of Christ's teachings. I am skeptical that it is inspired by God, and that is infallible.
Just to clarify.
As far as persuading goes, what I'm trying to do is provoke thought, and defense of beliefs. It seems to me that a lot of people simply believe what they are told they must believe, often without realizing or admitting all the implications of the doctrines. Also, sometimes their actions and speech betray their true beliefs, indicating that they don't really believe some of the things they say they do.
I agree some folks simply believe what they're told and "parrot" all they know, which they do not really know. And something should urge them to learn what they claim they believe. However, that should lbe done without discouraging them from believing the Bible is indeed God's inspired Word. I honestly think it is ethically wrong to come to a Christian forum and try to show folks the Bible is not God's inspired Word.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
I agree some folks simply believe what they're told and "parrot" all they know, which they do not really know. And something should urge them to learn what they claim they believe. However, that should lbe done without discouraging them from believing the Bible is indeed God's inspired Word. I honestly think it is ethically wrong to come to a Christian forum and try to show folks the Bible is not God's inspired Word.
I understand. And I have often stated that I am grateful to the admins for allowing me to be here, and that I will graciously leave if ever they ask.
(I understand, but disagree that it is ethically wrong, of course!)
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I agree some folks simply believe what they're told and "parrot" all they know, which they do not really know. And something should urge them to learn what they claim they believe. However, that should lbe done without discouraging them from believing the Bible is indeed God's inspired Word. I honestly think it is ethically wrong to come to a Christian forum and try to show folks the Bible is not God's inspired Word.
If it is then I think it is ethically wrong for the admins to have allowed him to stay... so they gotta take some of the blame too if that's true
EDIT: Wouldn't it also be ethically wrong for you to support such a forum with your posts while this is being allowed on the forum?
If it is then I think it is ethically wrong for the admins to have allowed him to stay... so they gotta take some of the blame too if that's true
Honestly I think if the admins had perhaps seen Timmy's overall agenda, especially in his signature that seems to portray an effort to subvert faith in the Pentecostal experience and belief, they would have not allowed him to post what he posts.
But, again, Timmy is a good person. He's got great sense of humour, and is kind. But to use that to more kindly subvert faith is a bit scary, in my opinion.
It reminds me of one brother in the Lord. He actually allows his younger kids to watch violence and sex in film, for the purpose of having them be exposed to it with him, since he reasons it's better than their exposure amongst sinners. I think that reasoning is way out of line, myself. So to say people will be exposed to those who subvert faith, so we might as well allow them on the forum, as notofworks suggested, is also way out of line.
Sorry for the diversion. But I did not mean to make this thread about Timmy. Sorry, Timmy. These guys just keep asking. Anyway, that is all I will say here. The admins can do what they choose. I personally would not allow this if I was an admin, as on my own forum. But that's just me.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Honestly I think if the admins had perhaps seen Timmy's overall agenda, especially in his signature that seems to portray an effort to subvert faith in the Pentecostal experience and belief, they would have not allowed him to post what he posts.
You could be right. They may be kicking themselves, now!
He's got great sense of humour, and is kind. But to use that to more kindly subvert faith is a bit scary, in my opinion.
It reminds me of one brother in the Lord. He actually allows his younger kids to watch violence and sex in film, for the purpose of having them be exposed to it with him, since he reasons it's better than their exposure amongst sinners. I think that reasoning is way out of line, myself. So to say people will be exposed to those who subvert faith, so we might as well allow them on the forum, as notofworks suggested, is also way out of line.
Sorry for the diversion. But I did not mean to make this thread about Timmy. Sorry, Timmy. These guys just keep asking. Anyway, that is all I will say here. The admins can do what they choose. I personally would not allow this if I was an admin, as on my own forum. But that's just me.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I do not judge them.
Hybrid Mode
