One Nation Under God

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Kind of sappy... sorry. And I object to the notion that the United States Constitution is "inspired of God." It's good, but not "inspired by God." In fact, it sort of goes out of the way to make no such claims for itself.


Benjamin Franklin should have the "Christian minister" between him and Jesus. In his thousands of letters that we have have preserved, Franklin never once even mentions Jesus Christ in passing. The two apparently had never met.


George Washington: the "Father of Our Country" was a deist and a philosophically committed Mason. He is famously said to have knelt in prayer at Valley Forge. The only problem is that the individuals that are said to have "witnessed" this either have denied it or are completely silent about it. No serious American historian has been able to attribute any religious faith to Washington other than his transcendental deism and his several secular announcements proclaiming a day or a time of "Thanksgiving to our Maker" - the impersonal deist god.

While I agree with most of what you said in the post I chopped up I take issue with two points. One minor the other not so much.

Franklin did in fact reference Jesus Christ, though perhaps not in the light most would like...


As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire,

• I think his system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes,
• and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity;
• though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble.
• I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequences, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and more observed;
• especially as I do not perceive that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure.

Benj. Franklin, Letter to Ezra Stiles, 9 March 1790

http://www.questioningchristian.com/...in_frankl.html


As to Washington I am curious as to why the view you presented would be attributed to a man who wrote...

...I beseech thee, my sins, remove them from thy presence, as far as the east is from the west, and accept of me for the merits of thy son Jesus Christ, that when I come into thy temple, and compass thine altar, my prayers may come before thee as incense; and as thou wouldst hear me calling upon thee in my prayers, so give me grace to hear thee calling on me in thy word, that it may be wisdom, righteousness, reconciliation and peace to the saving of the soul in the day of the Lord Jesus.

http://www.constitution.org/primarysources/george.html

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

While I agree with most of what you said in the post I chopped up I take issue with two points. One minor the other not so much.

Franklin did in fact reference Jesus Christ, though perhaps not in the light most would like...


As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire,

• I think his system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes,
• and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity;
• though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble.
• I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequences, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and more observed;
• especially as I do not perceive that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure.

Benj. Franklin, Letter to Ezra Stiles, 9 March 1790

http://www.questioningchristian.com/...in_frankl.html


As to Washington I am curious as to why the view you presented would be attributed to a man who wrote...

...I beseech thee, my sins, remove them from thy presence, as far as the east is from the west, and accept of me for the merits of thy son Jesus Christ, that when I come into thy temple, and compass thine altar, my prayers may come before thee as incense; and as thou wouldst hear me calling upon thee in my prayers, so give me grace to hear thee calling on me in thy word, that it may be wisdom, righteousness, reconciliation and peace to the saving of the soul in the day of the Lord Jesus.

http://www.constitution.org/primarysources/george.html

Good questions: First of all, the alleged "prayer journal" for General Washington is spurious. He did not write those words. They were composed, fabricated out of whole cloth (I believe) in or around 1919 or 1920. This is when the "prayer at Valley Forge" mythos was promulgated.

http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge...on/prayer.html

sorry... gotta run, I'll catch up after visiting the doc. My wife wanted to be there for this one so it'll look bad if I'm late.