What Is The One Step Of One Step Doctrine?

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by pelathais

You crack me up, Bro! "Common sense" instead of the Bible? ... especially in an area where the Bible is so verbose in contradicting your opinion here?

Do you ever follow along with the comments that are made and the context behind them? Obviously not reading below. It is called Biblical COMMON SENSE! Every teacher I have EVER HEARD OF ANY FAITH believes in a judgment by deeds of which my POINT WAS BASED!

There is a judgment for our "works" - 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 and 2 Corinthians 5:10.

imagine that a little 1+1 = 2 thus you should have understood "context" and the basis of my point without me having to repeat time after time the same thing.

However, this thread is about salvation. In the above passages of Scripture it is plainly evident that no what the outcome of the judgment - the individuals in all of these cases are Christians and saved by the Blood of the Lamb.

As I have pointed out salvation is multifacted. as you hae present and future aspects. Eschatological acquittal at the moment of faith is not biblical.

This is true but whether you completed your work will be weighed and did his commandments. Those who did have assurity of life.

The opening post asked - how did they (or do they) become saved?

see above...

Your response has been to argue that a person can do works and thus merit salvation. I asked for Scripture and you scoffed at the very thought of being asked for Scripture concerning the salvation of a believer.

sheesh you don't read... you live in some reformed world of whatever I think must be true. I have pointed out my view of Hebrews 5:8. Salvation is synergistic with a monergistic source. Thus we "agonize/exert all effort" to "remain" in him. Just as Abraham we are weighed in judgment faithful or wanting unto "his" commands... scoff? ROFL! I have done nothing in this thread but PROVIDE SCRIPTURE and direct teaching of my point of view! While I have seen nothing but out of context jargon of what scripture says from many here.

I implore you to rethink your position on this matter. You appear to have wandered far astray from the teachings of Jesus Christ and His apostles.

I know exactl what I am teaching and I thank you for your concern and I ask you to listen to what I say vs what you think and want to perceive I am saying.

Nope. I did would not ever consider "pleading" with God that my own deeds and works merit salvation.

I never said that. I have heard the "plead" comment many times. My point is simple. You won't be pleading anything whether it be by the blood of christ or your own works at judgment. You are being judged for what has already transpired and whether your actions fell upon trust in him or doing and living unto you own. To those that overcome(abide) I will confess before the Father. The only confessing will be Christ and his judgment as in Abraham aright or wanting.

Read: Romans 3:24; Galatians 3:22; Galatians 6:11-12 NLT and Galatians 6:14; Ephesians 2:8-10; Philippians 3:8-10; Titus 3:3-7; 1 John 5:10-12.

LOL! You don't think I don't know those scriptures.

Hey! You're not far from the Kingdom with this one!

LOL!

Not even a "nice try" there.

YOU SAID: "It does not say Abraham believe the Lord and he considered Abraham righteous."

GENESIS SAID:"And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness."

PAUL SAID: "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

As usual... you have imputation doctrine and do not look at the text but make the text what you want it to say. The text is about judgment of action from a narrative view of what was to come and the reality of what God would judge.

I will ask you again what is "it" in the second part? and he "believed" God and "he" accounted/considered/thought/calculated "it".... is "it" abraham or faith? What is God judging directly? The response or Abraham? THE RESPONSE! Thus the point "he" considered "it" (his response) to Abraham as righteous.... or more correctly in hebrew "just'

Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness. ESV

Gen 15:6 Abram believed20 the LORD, and the LORD21 considered his response of faith22 as proof of genuine loyalty.23 NET
Gen 15:6 And he hath believed in Jehovah, and He reckoneth it to him--righteousness. YLT

Q: What did Abraham do?
A: Abraham believed God.

that is correct. His believing though is viewed as a narrative comment PER JAMES THUS about the whole of Abraham life from the point of God speakingto him and consummated at Isaac. Thus his "faith" was judged unto Abraham as "righteous".

Q: What did God do in response to Abraham's "one step" of belief?
A: God counted Abraham righteous.

God judged that action or response, "just". Gen 15:6 is not about salvation directly but how God judges and judged or considered. This is consistent all throughout the OT and Jesus clearly teaches the SAME principle in the NT. God judges unto life or death our response. James said it was not "mental assent that he was judged" you ignored what JAMES SAID of fulfillment!

Q: What happens when a New Testament Christian comes along and follows Abraham's example?
A. Galatians 3:29

Your argument isn't with me, here. Your argument is with what Paul wrote in Galatians 3. Pretending that those who disagree with your "works based salvation" are simply misunderstanding your exhalted form of "theology" appears to be showing the highest levels of disrespect to the plain teachings of the apostles.

I have no argument with Paul. Pauls point is with respect that God judged the whole of Abrahams' life which started from the Gen 15:3-5 to Isaac, just. Thus he was "just" before circumcision and after. Abraham obeying God for circumcision was "just" as well. As faith "to do" is always a just response".

If it troubles you, why don't you just tear out Galatians 3 and any other "offending" passages of Scripture? Add that to your "works."

hmmm you are clueless about works and have ignored the clear scripture James says and what Moses or the author of Genesis says about Abraham and judgment to receive the promise. BECAUSE he obeyed the voice of God did it come to pass which follows perfectly along with Heb 5:9 and John 15 and tons of other passages. Works in themselves don't save as the source thus are not the "source" of salvation. They do though bring about a judgment of our faith of which we will be held accountable as faithful or wanting. Do my works merit salvation? In "part" yes as they are "faith" judged. You try to make a distinction of works and faith... sorry not there as faith cannot stand still but is defined by and as the proper response. Mental assent is dead. Salvation is synergistic with a monergistic source.

Me? I'll stick with Jesus because Jesus saves!

You have ingored his words as he teaches exactly what I said. Your works will be judged faithful or not unto life or death.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Which is exactly why we pray NOW, "not my will but Yours be done" in our lives. The steps of a good man ARE ordered of the Lord, IF that is where our hearts are. My works go before me and I am confident that God not only hears but answers my prayers to follow Him and be used of Him.

I am not HOPING that my deeds will be enough. (how much is enough?) He has and is answering my prayers. Based upon His word that He will do so, I have the utmost confidence that He will continue to do so and also the utmost confidence that on that day He will say, "Well done, you good and faithful servant. Enter into the joy of your Lord!" There is not a shadow of a doubt in my mind or heart simply because, "On Christ the solid Rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand."

You have every right to doubt your end and live your life in doubt and never being sure of your salvation. You can continue to focus on your works.....I'll just continue to do mine and focus on His work.

I'm not doubting my salvation and I won't. I will continue to strive to do my best to follow Him. But I will not do so in fear. I am more than a conqueror and a victor. I am the apple of His eye and I am as saved as I ever will be. I frequently ask Him to help me and cleanse me and strengthen me. I have utmost confidence that He does and will.

I am truly sorry that you don't share that same joy and confidence. It would probably lower your blood pressure, help you sleep at night and maybe even take the "edge" off your preaching! LOL

"It is a good day to die!"

ROFL... I do have confidence in God and his justice. I have not OBTAINED YET as Paul says. If I abide I have confidence before God that he is just and he will do what he said he would do. IF I ABIDE!

Also to make a note of something you said about works and pointed to "we did miracles in your name and cast our devils".....

DO you not see the improper use in that scripture for this discussion and argument against my points? I am kind of suprised you would use that when that scripture does not point to the commandments by which we are judged "right"! We are judged by the law of Christ of abiding. Not of miracles. Mark 12:29-31 and John 15 are the works WHICH IS RELATIONSHIP! God performing miracle means NOTHING in regards to relationship. John 15 clearly point to the work/law to do in that we abide in him. Blows my mind you would even consider trying to undercut CHrists command as that of miracles done as his "command and yoke"

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

ROFL... I do have confidence in God and his justice. I have not OBTAINED YET as Paul says. If I abide I have confidence before God that he is just and he will do what he said he would do. IF I ABIDE!

Also to make a note of something you said about works and pointed to "we did miracles in your name and cast our devils".....

DO you not see the improper use in that scripture for this discussion and argument against my points? I am kind of suprised you would use that when that scripture does not point to the commandments by which we are judged "right"! We are judged by the law of Christ of abiding. Not of miracles. Mark 12:29-31 and John 15 are the works WHICH IS RELATIONSHIP! God performing miracle means NOTHING in regards to relationship. John 15 clearly point to the work/law to do in that we abide in him. Blows my mind you would even consider trying to undercut CHrists command as that of miracles done as his "command and yoke"

Preaching and prophesying are NOT miracles. They are simply good works that we should do. How can you not see that? That's what I mean....no matter what scripture anyone uses you will say it means something else......and you have every right to do so.

But what assurance do you have of YOUR salvation? Are you sure you would be judged "aright" if you died today?


I am!

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Preaching and prophesying are NOT miracles. They are simply good works that we should do. How can you not see that? That's what I mean....no matter what scripture anyone uses you will say it means something else......and you have every right to do so.

But what assurance do you have of YOUR salvation? Are you sure you would be judged "aright" if you died today?


I am!

the reference to preaching would be that of Jesus Words that to those who teach and loosen or make lax one of these laws.... Thus those who taught by presummed authority in his name taught FALSLY! THUS THEY WHERE LAWLESS! AGain my point stands as those who abide MUST BE DOING LAW!

hmmm interesting that you have the ability to judge your heart when only God can do that with righteous judgment in the end. If we are to judge we would not judge ourselves. Yet you judge.... amazing!

How do we continue to abide in him?

How are we his friends?

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

hmmm interesting that you have the ability to judge your heart when only God can do that with righteous judgment in the end. If we are to judge we would not judge ourselves. Yet you judge.... amazing!

How do we continue to abide in him?

How are we his friends?

1Jn. 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God.

So, you can't answer the question?

You don't have a clue as to what might happen based upon your relationship with Him?

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

1Jn. 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God.

So, you can't answer the question?

You don't have a clue as to what might happen based upon your relationship with Him?

You didn't answer my questions...

1Jn 3:19 and in this we know that of the truth we are, and before Him we shall assure our hearts,

1Jn 3:20 because if our heart may condemn--because greater is God than our heart, and He doth know all things.
1Jn 3:21 Beloved, if our heart may not condemn us, we have boldness toward God,
1Jn 3:22 and whatever we may ask, we receive from Him, because His commands we keep, and the things pleasing before Him we do,[/B]

You are over stretching the context of what is meant. We do have confidence toward God if our heart doesn't comdemn... that is common sense but it is based upon US DOING WHAT HE COMMANDS and HIM BEING JUST. Will we be confident? Yes, but does that mean we have obtained or are overall right? No! He will reveal out hearts in the end! If the Spirit does not convict us sure we can stand before God confident but at the same time many will believe a lie and think they are just and not be because they are not hearing the Spirit but there justified there actions after the delusion of there own mind with the flesh or false doctrine. Again I am confident if I abide as he is just. He will judge in the end whether I did or not by my heart of which HE will judge.
We can have boldness but our hearts are deceitful as well as scripture says and Paul also says what? We will not judge ourselves if left to. The point is God is greater than our hearts judgment. We can have confidence but we may also be in ignorance as well. Our heart is not the judge in the end HE IS! You can have confidence or faith you will be judge aright but in the end it is HIS judgment that is greater.

As I have pointed out we have confidence because WE DO what he commands and what John clearly points out and I have said ALL ALONG! Thus we know God is just to do what he said he would do and judge justly!

[ManOfWord]

Listen, I don't have the time to play games with you. We are basically seeing things through different paradigms. We (at least I) don't have time to spend inordinate amounts of time thrashing scripture back and forth. The main issue here we have been dealing with is our assurance of salvation.

I have stated that I have it unequivocally.

My simple question to you is do you have ANY assurance that if you died today that you would be judged "aright?" Do you have any clue or are you fearful to even take a best guess based upon your relationship with Him?


If you have confidence in your position, you shouldn't have a problem with answering instead of avoiding a simple question. It shouldn't be difficult to answer either "Yes" or "I don't know." I have confidence in my position therefore I have no problem answering in the affirmative.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Listen, I don't have the time to play games with you. We are basically seeing things through different paradigms. We (at least I) don't have time to spend inordinate amounts of time thrashing scripture back and forth. The main issue here we have been dealing with is our assurance of salvation.

I have stated that I have it unequivocally.

My simple question to you is do you have ANY assurance that if you died today that you would be judged "aright?" Do you have any clue or are you fearful to even take a best guess based upon your relationship with Him?


If you have confidence in your position, you shouldn't have a problem with answering instead of avoiding a simple question. It shouldn't be difficult to answer either "Yes" or "I don't know." I have confidence in my position therefore I have no problem answering in the affirmative.

My heart does not condemn that I have done what he asks in loving my neighbor. I feel I have done his commandments but his judgment is greater than my judgment. I walk fearful in humbleness to do his will that he might judge me aright in response to his call. If I fall I turn in humblness and ask for forgiveness. I have confidence in his judgment that he is merciful and just.

You can ignore why we "may" have confidence which is because "we do his commands" all you want but it is what it is.

I have avoided nothing but you ignore my question I asked.

How do we continue to abide?

How are we called his friends?

I now add how do we have confidence? Which has actually been answered but I want to verify your understanding.


(added) 1Jn 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him(how do we do that and what is abiding based on?), so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming.

Also your confidence is not what the actual judgment is. I can have confidence I did well on a test but my confidence in my answers and the reality of what is judged are two different things. You may think you answered/responded rightly but the point is your response will be judged justly by God. The judgment of our response of our heart is a little more complicated than 1+1=2 but at the same time just as simple.

[Jeffrey]

There is a Moralist among us.

This is the background and lead-in to 20th Century Pentecostalism, so that makes sense.

Puritans, Mystics and Wesleyan COMPLETE Sanctification theories much abounded in the heritage of what is modern-day Pentecostalism.

Let this youngster, Larson's boy, talk about Moralism:
http://vincelarson.blogspot.com/2010...m-tullian.html

[KWSS1976]

I will just go with the step thats been around the longest...it bound to be tried and true....lol