Who are the Cherubims?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

"Angels" seems to be a generic word covering all the host of heaven.

ISBE

6. Relation to Seraphim and Other Angels

Ezekiel's cherubim are clearly related to the seraphim in Isaiah's inaugural vision (Isa_6:1-13). Like the cherubim, the seraphim are the attendants on God as He is seated upon a throne high and exalted; they are also winged creatures: with twain they cover their faces, and with twain they cover their feet, and with twain they fly. Like the Levites in the sanctuary below, they sing a hymn of adoration: "Holy, holy, holy, is Yahweh of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory." In the Book of Enoch, the cherubim, seraphim, and ophannim (wheels), and all the angels of power constitute the "host of God," the guardians of His throne, the singers of praise ascribing blessedness to "the Lord of Spirits," with the archangel Gabriel at their head (see 20:7; 40; Isa_61:10 f; 71:7). And so in the Jewish daily liturgy the seraphim, ophannim, and "living creatures" constitute the heavenly choir who, the elect ministers of the Living God, ready to do the will of their maker with trembling, intone in sweet harmony the Thrice-holy. In the Talmud, the cherubim are represented as having the likeness of youths (with a fanciful etymology, כּטרוּב, ke plus rūbh, "like a youth"; Ṣukk 5b; Ḥag 13b), while, according to the Midrash, they have no definite shape, but appear indifferently as men or women, or as spirits and angelic beings (Gen rabbā) 21).

The seraphim are related to cherubim for sure, but I think they are emblematic symbols and not actual being as angels are actual. Again, cherubims/seraphims are redeemed according to Rev 5:9.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The seraphim are related to cherubim for sure, but I think they are emblematic symbols and not actual being as angels are actual. Again, cherubims/seraphims are redeemed according to Rev 5:9.

I think they are all beings. They don't all have the same function.

As for Rev 5:9 just because they sing along with the elders does not necessarily mean they are redeemed. Cheribums also keep man from entering the garden of Eden. They clearly are living beings of some sort.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I think they are all beings. They don't all have the same function.

As for Rev 5:9 just because they sing along with the elders does not necessarily mean they are redeemed. Cheribums also keep man from entering the garden of Eden. They clearly are living beings of some sort.

I agree cherubims were there in Eden. However, I still feel they are symbolic, showing that past this point in the Garden entrance man had dominion over the kingdoms depicted on the faces.... cattle, beasts and fowl. They show earthly creatures, after all.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I agree cherubims were there in Eden. However, I still feel they are symbolic, showing that past this point in the Garden entrance man had dominion over the kingdoms depicted on the faces.... cattle, beasts and fowl. They show earthly creatures, after all.

They might be symbolic of something, but they actual exist. They are called living beings. They, like angel angels, are created beings for God's purpose

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

They might be symbolic of something, but they actual exist. They are called living beings. They, like angel angels, are created beings for God's purpose

If something is symbolic, and really alive, then I would say they are not in the same category as angels at all since angels do not live to be symbols. Like I said, I agree with what John Gill said. But in the sense you note here, yes I guess they would be living creatures. I wonder if they even exist now, though.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

If something is symbolic, and really alive, then I would say they are not in the same category as angels at all since angels do not live to be symbols. Like I said, I agree with what John Gill said. But in the sense you note here, yes I guess they would be living creatures. I wonder if they even exist now, though.

Like I said the word "angels" seems to be a catchall phrase, not intended to mean they are all the same kinds of beings. I don't see any reason for them not existing. Especially if they can say they have been redeemed?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

They might be symbolic of something, but they actual exist. They are called living beings. They, like angel angels, are created beings for God's purpose

I take it that Mike is emphasizing the symbolic quality of these beings in the literature of the Bible. I may be wrong, tho.

Even if they appeared in visions, this does not necessarily mean that they are "real" or literal beings which sometimes appear as four separate creatures and then later as a single creature with four different faces.

The morphing and shape shifting quality really does appear to to demand that we at least focus upon the symbolism rather than expect to some day pet them in a zoo.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I take it that Mike is emphasizing the symbolic quality of these beings in the literature of the Bible. I may be wrong, tho.

Even if they appeared in visions, this does not necessarily mean that they are "real" or literal beings which sometimes appear as four separate creatures and then later as a single creature with four different faces.

The morphing and shape shifting quality really does appear to to demand that we at least focus upon the symbolism rather than expect to some day pet them in a zoo.

They are given jobs to perform, like angels. They are given the job of protecting the garden. And they are called Living Beings

[mfblume]

One day I noticed that when we look at Ezekiel 1's description of the placement of the cherubims where they are called LIVING CREATURES, which is synonymous for BEASTS in Revelation, we read they are standing with the human face in the forefront, the lion on the right, ox on left and eagle in behind on the back. This is the same placement as the standards with the same faces around the tabernacle in Num 2.

Eze 1:10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.

Front = South
Right = East
Left = West
Back = North

[Sam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I agree cherubims were there in Eden. However, I still feel they are symbolic, showing that past this point in the Garden entrance man had dominion over the kingdoms depicted on the faces.... cattle, beasts and fowl. They show earthly creatures, after all.

You don't think the cherubim in Eden that prevented Adam's entrance were the church? or people? do you? Or that the cherubim atop the ark of the covenant as part of the mercy seat whose wings arched over and touched were people?