Are Trinitarians Saved?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I would not go that far. There should be no question to those who witness the initiation rite, that it is Christ Jesus who is the Saviour and who is being followed.

That's because you see it as a "rite". Biblically, it's the moment of prayer and conversion. Ananias didn't call on the name of Jesus at Paul's baptism... Paul was told to.

We're sacramentalizing just like the Trinitarians. Both Oneness and Trinitarian Christians are doing violence to biblical baptism. This is where the "Kingdom of God" comes in. Those who called on the name of Jesus at their baptism (regardless as to what was uttered over them by some well intentioned priest or preacher) have had their sins remitted. Those who relied on the words of a priest or preacher only got wet, and are dead where they stand.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

That's because you see it as a "rite". Biblically, it's the moment of prayer and conversion. Ananias didn't call on the name of Jesus at Paul's baptism... Paul was told to.

We're sacramentalizing just like the Trinitarians. Both Oneness and Trinitarian Christians are doing violence to biblical baptism. This is where the "Kingdom of God" comes in. Those who called on the name of Jesus at their baptism (regardless as to what was uttered over them by some well intentioned priest or preacher) have had their sins remitted. Those who relied on the words of a priest or preacher only got wet, and are dead where they stand.

No I don't see "calling on the Lord" as a rite in it'self, I was referring to the baptismal ceremony in particular.

The ceremony is sacred and should not be approached haphazardly. Baptism is for those who have already believed in, and received Christ and experienced the salvation of the Lord. I don't see baptism as the initial conversion or "calling on the Lord" yet it publicizes what has occurred internally and it makes good sense that the name be proclaimed at the event.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

No I don't see "calling on the Lord" as a rite in it'self, I was referring to the baptismal ceremony in particular.

The ceremony is sacred and should not be approached haphazardly. Baptism is for those who have already believed in, and received Christ and experienced the salvation of the Lord. I don't see baptism as the initial conversion or "calling on the Lord" yet it publicizes what has occurred internally and it makes good sense that the name be proclaimed at the event.

I think you misunderstood me. We traditionally view baptism as a "ceremony" or a "rite". I believe that in NT times it was a moment of prayer and repentance. It was while standing in the water that one called on the name of the Lord.