For those that left the UPC...

[On The Wheel]

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

Specifically...What made you finally decide to leave? Was it difficult? Were you able to find a church that wasn't "easy believism" but yet one that didn't enforce extra-biblical principles where you could go and worship God in your own way? Do you have any regrets? Anything you wish you had done differently? How is your walk with God now? Do you still suffer from self condemnation and feel brainwashed?

I asked this identical question to a highly respected man I knew years ago. His answer to me was that leaving the UPCI was like a death. He was ostracized and pushed away by almost everyone he had known. However, he said he would do it all over again if he had to. It was worth it to be able to walk in truth and preach truth with a clear conscience and let God sort out some of the more ambiguous areas of disagreement.

We are still trying to figure out what to do and how to do it, so I can only tell you that you are not alone. I'm convinced that there would be many more who would take the steps we are contemplating if they knew how so many actually felt about the unsupported stands we have taken.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by On The Wheel

I asked this identical question to a highly respected man I knew years ago. His answer to me was that leaving the UPCI was like a death. He was ostracized and pushed away by almost everyone he had known. However, he said he would do it all over again if he had to. It was worth it to be able to walk in truth and preach truth with a clear conscience and let God sort out some of the more ambiguous areas of disagreement.

We are still trying to figure out what to do and how to do it, so I can only tell you that you are not alone. I'm convinced that there would be many more who would take the steps we are contemplating if they knew how so many actually felt about the unsupported stands we have taken.

There are ministers in the UPC now who are confronting the unsupported stands and are doing it within the confines of the UPC to promote change.

[On The Wheel]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Would you elaborate on the bolded portion?

Originally Posted by mizpeh

There are ministers in the UPC now who are confronting the unsupported stands and are doing it within the confines of the UPC to promote change.

In answer to your question, those that I am finding I must at the most embrace and at the least not condemn are those that have taken differing stands in certain areas. Women wearing pants (many younger women own few if any skirts or dresses and find our unsubstantiated stand absurd), those that use moderation in adornment, and and so on. The number of scriptures that address these issues are minuscule when compared to other scriptures that command us to love those who are a part of the fellowship of Christ.

I am very aware there are those who are confronting these types of stands within the UPC. However, time is short. Perhaps there will be real change in a decade or two. Call me impatient, but I don't think I am willing to wait. Furthermore, I don't want my children to wait. More and more these stands are becoming impediments to the propagation of the gospel among those who have to some degree an ability to discover biblical truths on their own, and not just accept what is told them without analysis. That's just how I see it.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by On The Wheel

However, time is short. Perhaps there will be real change in a decade or two. Call me impatient, but I don't think I am willing to wait. Furthermore, I don't want my children to wait. More and more these stands are becoming impediments to the propagation of the gospel among those who have to some degree an ability to discover biblical truths on their own, and not just accept what is told them without analysis. That's just how I see it.

This is the way I feel. I believe massive change will come eventually, but I am afraid of the damage that will be done in the meantime. I can already see the effects in my own children. I'm not willing to play the game any longer, and see my children harmed further.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by On The Wheel

In answer to your question, those that I am finding I must at the most embrace and at the least not condemn are those that have taken differing stands in certain areas. Women wearing pants (many younger women own few if any skirts or dresses and find our unsubstantiated stand absurd), those that use moderation in adornment, and and so on. The number of scriptures that address these issues are minuscule when compared to other scriptures that command us to love those who are a part of the fellowship of Christ.

I am very aware there are those who are confronting these types of stands within the UPC. However, time is short. Perhaps there will be real change in a decade or two. Call me impatient, but I don't think I am willing to wait. Furthermore, I don't want my children to wait. More and more these stands are becoming impediments to the propagation of the gospel among those who have to some degree an ability to discover biblical truths on their own, and not just accept what is told them without analysis. That's just how I see it.

God bless you with direction, patience, and lots of love.

[On The Wheel]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

God bless you with direction, patience, and lots of love.

Thanks. I very sincerely believe that he will. If God opens a door in another direction, I'm taking it.

[SeekingOne]

Originally Posted by On The Wheel

I am very aware there are those who are confronting these types of stands within the UPC. However, time is short. Perhaps there will be real change in a decade or two. Call me impatient, but I don't think I am willing to wait.

The above was said in response to someone "encouraging them" that there are some people higher up in the UPC trying to point out the lies they force people to suck down. I am not sure why anyone would wait??? Unless you are still drinking the Kool-aid believing it is the only church that saves. (Not saying you believe this at all)

I can see looking for the right timing to leave, but not stick around because you want to STILL stay a part of an ORGANIZATION that doesn't even recognize the Body of Christ at large. A bunch of humans taking the place of God by deciding who is and isn't going to hell by their interpretation. An organization that treats people that love God, possibly more than them, worse than a stray dog they may find on the street.

How crazy is this? Some people are staying in a church pretending they believe stuff that isn't true. They are waiting for a group of men to make a decision for the whole UPC that releases them from living a lie. For your own sake, release yourself from the lie, don't wait on a group of men to decide what the Bible says today, so they can change it again tomorrow.

Why would you want to be a part of an organization that decides for you what the Bible says and what you can and can't do? It sounds a bit like how the Catholics used to live, where only the Priest could tell them what the Bible said.

Sorry, I guess this hit a nerve today. I am missing my family that thinks I am going to hell, because I don't go to their church. Yet, I know so many that are just living a lie in that church, because they don't want to have to experience the same hell they are required to put me through.

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by SeekingOne

The above was said in response to someone "encouraging them" that there are some people higher up in the UPC trying to point out the lies they force people to suck down. I am not sure why anyone would wait??? Unless you are still drinking the Kool-aid believing it is the only church that saves. (Not saying you believe this at all)

I can see looking for the right timing to leave, but not stick around because you want to STILL stay a part of an ORGANIZATION that doesn't even recognize the Body of Christ at large. A bunch of humans taking the place of God by deciding who is and isn't going to hell by their interpretation. An organization that treats people that love God, possibly more than them, worse than a stray dog they may find on the street.

How crazy is this? Some people are staying in a church pretending they believe stuff that isn't true. They are waiting for a group of men to make a decision for the whole UPC that releases them from living a lie. For your own sake, release yourself from the lie, don't wait on a group of men to decide what the Bible says today, so they can change it again tomorrow.

Why would you want to be a part of an organization that decides for you what the Bible says and what you can and can't do? It sounds a bit like how the Catholics used to live, where only the Priest could tell them what the Bible said.

Sorry, I guess this hit a nerve today. I am missing my family that thinks I am going to hell, because I don't go to their church. Yet, I know so many that are just living a lie in that church, because they don't want to have to experience the hell they are required to put me through.

I understand and agree with you.

Sorry you are missing family. Matthew 19:29 refers to leaving family. I understand...

It goes so much further than dress standards, but that is actually what pushed me out the door at the last. The whole mentality of performance based religion and control coming down from the powers that be...whether the org or local church grieved me to the point I couldn't stay.

blessings

[SeekingOne]

Thanks ForeverBlessed, I did not leave due to standards. I actually did not realize those lies until I joined this forum. I am sure my old church tells people that I never believed in "the standards" and lived a lie while I was there, but I was just as deceived as the leadership on that on.

I left due to a bunch of other delusional thinking and spiritual abuse that goes on there. It is one thing to say that Jesus comes before your family, but when a bunch people decide they ARE Jesus (come in the flesh)and therefore what the leaders say is above anything else is down right scary.

[ForeverBlessed]

Originally Posted by SeekingOne

Thanks ForeverBlessed, I did not leave due to standards. I actually did not realize those lies until I joined this forum. I am sure my old church tells people that I never believed in "the standards" and lived a lie while I was there, but I was just as deceived as the leadership on that on.

I left due to a bunch of other delusional thinking and spiritual abuse that goes on there. It is one thing to say that Jesus comes before your family, but when a bunch people decide they ARE Jesus (come in the flesh)and therefore what the leaders say is above anything else is down right scary.

I understand and have seen it in action and seen and even experienced the control over the years.

I had a friend leave about the same time I did, they went to another church. Most of my family seems to just ignore the changes and even I've been ignored. I think maybe from embarrassment...or they might not really know what to do or say...who knows?

However, I read emails daily from a friend who left the same church I left... she was on Pastor's staff. She would forward me the emails and texts often crying, what do I do now? The condemnation and judgement that poured from him as he tried to manipulate and control her with guilt. He proclaimed judgment upon her household.. it was ungodly. I prayed and counseled her to keep her heart right, just stay focused on the Lord and where he was leading their family. The same pastor talked with me and told me that I was going down a road I would never recover, advised me to quit listening to others, but he knew I was not coming back.

I realize that not all churches or UPC pastors have control issues, but unfortunately there has been enough of it within. The closer I get to the Lord and learn of him through his word, do I realize the error of things that others never give a second thought.

Try to stay focused on what is right and stay above the fray of talk... thinking on things that are pure. Forgiving those offenses and things that have inflicted pain. It is the only way to heal.

blessings.