For those that left the UPC...

[On The Wheel]

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

Specifically...What made you finally decide to leave? Was it difficult? Were you able to find a church that wasn't "easy believism" but yet one that didn't enforce extra-biblical principles where you could go and worship God in your own way? Do you have any regrets? Anything you wish you had done differently? How is your walk with God now? Do you still suffer from self condemnation and feel brainwashed?

I asked this identical question to a highly respected man I knew years ago. His answer to me was that leaving the UPCI was like a death. He was ostracized and pushed away by almost everyone he had known. However, he said he would do it all over again if he had to. It was worth it to be able to walk in truth and preach truth with a clear conscience and let God sort out some of the more ambiguous areas of disagreement.

We are still trying to figure out what to do and how to do it, so I can only tell you that you are not alone. I'm convinced that there would be many more who would take the steps we are contemplating if they knew how so many actually felt about the unsupported stands we have taken.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by On The Wheel

The more he searches the scriptures with an honest heart, the closer he will come to the bedrock of Christian faith.

I will say there has been a certain fear that has come upon me of late, which may grip him also. Not that I will find scriptural support for stands that I do not take, but rather that I will find no, true hermeneutically sound scriptural support for positions over which my peer group and I have used to condemn godly people to hell for years. Then what must we do?

I have also noticed a marked discontent within previously closed ranks, regarding some of our traditional fixations on outward dress, or the aristicratic posturing of the many in the ministry. Our identifiers have become less about Christ and more about being followers of (insert big pastor name here), or how we look on the outside.

I am not one to pick. It's my desire to return to the old paths that truly are the good way.

Blessings for you and your husband. Your journey will be arduous but rewarding.

Would you elaborate on the bolded portion?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by On The Wheel

I asked this identical question to a highly respected man I knew years ago. His answer to me was that leaving the UPCI was like a death. He was ostracized and pushed away by almost everyone he had known. However, he said he would do it all over again if he had to. It was worth it to be able to walk in truth and preach truth with a clear conscience and let God sort out some of the more ambiguous areas of disagreement.

We are still trying to figure out what to do and how to do it, so I can only tell you that you are not alone. I'm convinced that there would be many more who would take the steps we are contemplating if they knew how so many actually felt about the unsupported stands we have taken.

There are ministers in the UPC now who are confronting the unsupported stands and are doing it within the confines of the UPC to promote change.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

Just a quick update regarding my husband. He has been doing some research on his own. He told me today that he talked to his family this week, and they admitted they had the same questions and feelings that I've been having. This really surprised me...I full expected for them to be upset at me. He told me to give him more space and more time to think and pray about things.

I think it was ForeverBlessed that expressed how much she disliked "change", which made it harder for her to leave an organization. That is how I am too...I don't deal with change very well. I like the familiar and the routines..and the structure. I fight fearing the unknown. There is a large part of me that likes the traditions of the church, because I like traditional things. It's what I've known for most of my life. It's become my identity.

I've been thinking lately that it's possible that God is deliberately shaking us. I've think we've become way too comfortable in our traditions. We can easily "serve God" now without ever giving God much thought!

He can't like that.

That's wonderful about your husband!!

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Falla39

I'm still trying to figure out what you are saying here!

Falla39

good, then I'm not the only one who didn't understand what was meant.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Sam

good, then I'm not the only one who didn't understand what was meant.

Maybe he meant to say 'jump the shark'? That's a phrase used to mean something like 'go too far/get ridiculous'.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Falla39

I'm still trying to figure out what you are saying here!

Falla39

Sorry I meant jump the shark. Basically it is putting the cart before the horse.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Sorry I meant jump the shark. Basically it is putting the cart before the horse.

Is this the saying based on The Fonz jumping over the shark on water skies?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Sorry I meant jump the shark. Basically it is putting the cart before the horse.

I don't remember ever hearing that statement before this forum.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Good thoughts. I think that it is best to be careful, but not to just the shark

I can assure you that if many of the younger generation (and I'm not
even talking about the very young or even teenagers), could fast forward.
and could see into the future, their insights to many of the subjects on
this forum would be very different. You have no idea how life changes as
you grow older. Some will look back and realize that they could
not see what they see with age and wisdom, and experience.

We were very fortunate to have godly parents that led us, as our pastor.
I remember so vividly hearing my late father teach and preach, yet not
fully understanding what he was saying. And I watched as those who not
only COULD not see, but WOULD not see or trust that the elder could see
further ahead. He was "miles and miles" ahead in age and in experience.
But as his eldest daughter, working closely with him in the church, I knew
I could trust his ability to lead safely. He didn't make rash decisions, and
I knew his prayer life and his consistant study of the Word. Most every-
thing he did, he did it prayfully. I learned so much from him. But they could
not live my life for me, but they left clues all along the way that has made
the path so much easier. They did it by being loving examples.

However we faced some trials unlike any Grandma or our parents had ever
faced. I knew only to trust the GOD I had seen them trust completely. The
trials we faced caused me to have to look to GOD for myself. I don't know if
I could have survived if not for the examples of seeing God "come through"
for them so many times. God is/was always faithful! He could be trusted!
I say a lot of things I know our adult children, etc. and others, do not fully
understand. They cannot, but will later. Jesus told his disciples that there
were many things he could say to them BUT they would not be able to bear
them at that point. Later they would remember the things he had said to
them while he was yet with them. SO much I have remembered that my late
father and mother said while they were yet with us. And they have meant so
much. I have drawn from their words spoken back then. The words of my dear
Grandma have been such a strength and help. Our ears are just not fully open
in the earlier years. Oh, some may think they know it all, but just wait. Don't
be critical of them though. I remember Grandma saying things and then would
smile. She knew!! Now I am the senior, the mother of adult children, the grand
mother of soon to be 21 grandchildren, the Great-Grandmother of one! So I
will just trust and know that HE WILL be Faithful to them, just as He has been
to us and those who preceded us. And those following us! Meanwhile I will just smile
and love and trust!! One by one, each in his order! No cart before the horse here!

Hugs,

Falla39