Holiness Is Still Important

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by notofworks

You know, Jeffrey.....if someone thinks they should get rid of their TV, I would support them. But I would want them to understand it may not, and probably won't, change anything. But most importantly, they could not expect others to do the same. That's when it becomes legalism....when our personal preferences become another man's law. That's the definition of "Legalism."

That's not really support then.

Your statement about legalism, oif course I agree with you.

But I don't see how keeping one's home a sanctuary will not help them. Or, since AQP brought up the Matthew parable, if one's eye is offending them, how plucking it out won't be helpful! Of course it will.

It doesn't rid us of our problem. Which is why getting rid of a TV, or selective about movies, or filters on internet, is not about "do this and you're perfect and holy." It's accompanied by the Spirit, saying "Jesus you are LORD, and I'm setting up idols in my life that I'm worshippping (lust), and I worship you. If I truly believe you are LORD, I won't worship them. Help my unbelief." Then afterward, doing everything to make provision to avoid that trap.

If it's a certain girl at work one flirts with overboard. They choose a different route. If it's a certain drive home where it goes right by the beach front with scantily clad women that creates an inferno of raging thoughts, then they choose a different route. If it means conversations have gone too far with a part of the opposite sex, they never allow alone conversations with that person. It's us being led by the Spirit, taking responsibility for our own actions. Grace has our back, but it's not going to let us lay down and bring our idols in.

[allstate1]

@the legalist How holy do you have to be to be saved? How much praying fasting etc is acceptable? Where is you line in the sand?

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by allstate1

@the legalist How holy do you have to be to be saved? How much praying fasting etc is acceptable? Where is you line in the sand?

the line in the sand is the Spirit leading you and you not being enmity with his will. Thus by being a servant to the commands of God you are judged faithful.

Luk 13:23 Someone asked him, "Lord, will only a few be saved?" So he said to them,
Luk 13:24 "Exert every effortto enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

That's not really support then.

Your statement about legalism, oif course I agree with you.

••Yes, I think it is support. In fact, I think it's great support, because I would be applying wisdom to their decision and giving them prudence as to what they should expect. If they think the banned TV will solve their problem, they need to know that's probably not true.

But I don't see how keeping one's home a sanctuary will not help them. Or, since AQP brought up the Matthew parable, if one's eye is offending them, how plucking it out won't be helpful! Of course it will.

••What does that parable really mean, though? Let's face it...all of us see things that tempt us or even cause us to fall. So how come no one plucks their eye out? I've heard of people trying and they're institutionalized. There must be some other meaning to that parable? Care to take a stab?

It doesn't rid us of our problem. Which is why getting rid of a TV, or selective about movies, or filters on internet, is not about "do this and you're perfect and holy." It's accompanied by the Spirit, saying "Jesus you are LORD, and I'm setting up idols in my life that I'm worshippping (lust), and I worship you. If I truly believe you are LORD, I won't worship them. Help my unbelief." Then afterward, doing everything to make provision to avoid that trap.

••This is my point. Maybe getting rid of a TV will help. Maybe it won't. But the sin nature isn't going to disappear because I sell my TV in a rummage sale. ndavid said it very well. Just walk outside the house and there's plenty to tempt us. And since this is the case, maybe we should all gouge our eyes out. But no one's doing that, are they? That would hurt too much!

If it's a certain girl at work one flirts with overboard. They choose a different route. If it's a certain drive home where it goes right by the beach front with scantily clad women that creates an inferno of raging thoughts, then they choose a different route.

••But what about truly addressing the problem, through counseling, renewing of the mind, and being empowered by the Holy Spirit? Then one would be able to drive by the beach.......and not look! That's the victory, not wasting gas by driving an extra 20 miles around the beach.

If it means conversations have gone too far with a part of the opposite sex, they never allow alone conversations with that person. It's us being led by the Spirit, taking responsibility for our own actions. Grace has our back, but it's not going to let us lay down and bring our idols in.

I agree about grace. The thing is, the more I've experienced grace and understood it, the more I want to please my Father. Knowing that grace "has my back" and knowing that I can get back up and try again, is empowering!

[Jeffrey]

[QUOTE=notofworks;915813]
That's not really support then.
Your statement about legalism, oif course I agree with you.

••Yes, I think it is support. In fact, I think it's great support, because I would be applying wisdom to their decision and giving them prudence as to what they should expect. If they think the banned TV will solve their problem, they need to know that's probably not true.

LOL Way to support their decision. You are arguing with it. "Do it if you wanna, but it won't help!" That's support? lol

But I don't see how keeping one's home a sanctuary will not help them. Or, since AQP brought up the Matthew parable, if one's eye is offending them, how plucking it out won't be helpful! Of course it will.

••What does that parable really mean, though? Let's face it...all of us see things that tempt us or even cause us to fall. So how come no one plucks their eye out? I've heard of people trying and they're institutionalized. There must be some other meaning to that parable? Care to take a stab?

I always love to take stabs. But let me ask you first to project your meaning since you disagreed with my own application.

Here's some context of Matthew 5, hard words spoken from a passionate Jesus:

19-20"Trivialize even the smallest item in God's Law and you will only have trivialized yourself. But take it seriously, show the way for others, and you will find honor in the kingdom. Unless you do far better than the Pharisees in the matters of right living, you won't know the first thing about entering the kingdom.

Mt 5 gives the most practical advice, from Jesus' own mouth, about how to live a morally pure life. I love how the chapter sums up:

"In a word, what I'm saying is, Grow up. You're kingdom subjects. Now live like it. Live out your God-created identity. Live generously and graciously toward others, the way God lives toward you."

It doesn't rid us of our problem. Which is why getting rid of a TV, or selective about movies, or filters on internet, is not about "do this and you're perfect and holy." It's accompanied by the Spirit, saying "Jesus you are LORD, and I'm setting up idols in my life that I'm worshippping (lust), and I worship you. If I truly believe you are LORD, I won't worship them. Help my unbelief." Then afterward, doing everything to make provision to avoid that trap.

••This is my point. Maybe getting rid of a TV will help. Maybe it won't. But the sin nature isn't going to disappear because I sell my TV in a rummage sale. ndavid said it very well. Just walk outside the house and there's plenty to tempt us. And since this is the case, maybe we should all gouge our eyes out. But no one's doing that, are they? That would hurt too much!

If it's a certain girl at work one flirts with overboard. They choose a different route. If it's a certain drive home where it goes right by the beach front with scantily clad women that creates an inferno of raging thoughts, then they choose a different route.


At least we've made some progress with your "maybe it will help!" It will most certainly help. A man that struggles with lust (many of us do), but a man who is consumed, who stays away from the temptation is a wise man. He hasn't conquered the venom of sin, but he's learned to grow up and behave maturely, taking responsibility for his actions. Striving to live right. Also, I never interpreted eye gouging literally, not sure why you are doing that now. This is a parable. Your logic says, "heck since it's everywhere, don't even bother." I find that very ignorant, NOW.

••But what about truly addressing the problem, through counseling, renewing of the mind, and being empowered by the Holy Spirit? Then one would be able to drive by the beach.......and not look! That's the victory, not wasting gas by driving an extra 20 miles around the beach.

Sure, address it in those ways. But also remove yourself from the temptation if it's feeding your problem. It's not either/or. I'm surprised you think by the Spirit we can be perfect all of a sudden. I think the man that drives a different route has victory just the same! How can you say otherwise???

If it means conversations have gone too far with a part of the opposite sex, they never allow alone conversations with that person. It's us being led by the Spirit, taking responsibility for our own actions. Grace has our back, but it's not going to let us lay down and bring our idols in.

I agree about grace. The thing is, the more I've experienced grace and understood it, the more I want to please my Father. Knowing that grace "has my back" and knowing that I can get back up and try again, is empowering!

[notofworks]

[QUOTE=Jeffrey;915891]

Originally Posted by notofworks

That's not really support then.
Your statement about legalism, oif course I agree with you.



LOL Way to support their decision. You are arguing with it. "Do it if you wanna, but it won't help!" That's support? lol

But I don't see how keeping one's home a sanctuary will not help them. Or, since AQP brought up the Matthew parable, if one's eye is offending them, how plucking it out won't be helpful! Of course it will.

I always love to take stabs. But let me ask you first to project your meaning since you disagreed with my own application.

Here's some context of Matthew 5, hard words spoken from a passionate Jesus:

19-20"Trivialize even the smallest item in God's Law and you will only have trivialized yourself. But take it seriously, show the way for others, and you will find honor in the kingdom. Unless you do far better than the Pharisees in the matters of right living, you won't know the first thing about entering the kingdom.

Mt 5 gives the most practical advice, from Jesus' own mouth, about how to live a morally pure life. I love how the chapter sums up:

"In a word, what I'm saying is, Grow up. You're kingdom subjects. Now live like it. Live out your God-created identity. Live generously and graciously toward others, the way God lives toward you."

It doesn't rid us of our problem. Which is why getting rid of a TV, or selective about movies, or filters on internet, is not about "do this and you're perfect and holy." It's accompanied by the Spirit, saying "Jesus you are LORD, and I'm setting up idols in my life that I'm worshippping (lust), and I worship you. If I truly believe you are LORD, I won't worship them. Help my unbelief." Then afterward, doing everything to make provision to avoid that trap.



If it's a certain girl at work one flirts with overboard. They choose a different route. If it's a certain drive home where it goes right by the beach front with scantily clad women that creates an inferno of raging thoughts, then they choose a different route.


At least we've made some progress with your "maybe it will help!" It will most certainly help. A man that struggles with lust (many of us do), but a man who is consumed, who stays away from the temptation is a wise man. He hasn't conquered the venom of sin, but he's learned to grow up and behave maturely, taking responsibility for his actions. Striving to live right. Also, I never interpreted eye gouging literally, not sure why you are doing that now. This is a parable. Your logic says, "heck since it's everywhere, don't even bother." I find that very ignorant, NOW.



Sure, address it in those ways. But also remove yourself from the temptation if it's feeding your problem. It's not either/or. I'm surprised you think by the Spirit we can be perfect all of a sudden. I think the man that drives a different route has victory just the same! How can you say otherwise???

If it means conversations have gone too far with a part of the opposite sex, they never allow alone conversations with that person. It's us being led by the Spirit, taking responsibility for our own actions. Grace has our back, but it's not going to let us lay down and bring our idols in.

I agree about grace. The thing is, the more I've experienced grace and understood it, the more I want to please my Father. Knowing that grace "has my back" and knowing that I can get back up and try again, is empowering!

Whew.....this post was confusing. But I'll just summarize with this....removing things will not solve a person's problems. That's what must be understood. Will it help? Who knows...maybe. But there's a deeper issue and if it's not addressed, removing something isn't going to help. If the deeper issue isn't addressed in the proper manner, removing things won't make one bit of difference.

[Jeffrey]

[QUOTE=notofworks;915925]

FROM NOW - Whew.....this post was confusing. But I'll just summarize with this....removing things will not solve a person's problems. That's what must be understood. Will it help? Who knows...maybe. But there's a deeper issue and if it's not addressed, removing something isn't going to help. If the deeper issue isn't addressed in the proper manner, removing things won't make one bit of difference.

It was confusing because of the way you replied to my last post. I had to go back in and differentiate who was who speaking lol

I disagree, removing things can often times solve a person's problem. Maybe not the ultimate problem, but you let me know when you have that one nailed down tight.

Deeper issue to lust? It's called sin! It's called flesh! Not going to the counsel of the wicked, standing in the way of sinners, hanging out in the tents of the harlot, all of those will keep one from falling. Like any safeguard -- from a helmet to a bullet-proof vest, they only guarantee a form of protection. You aren't invincible.

How does one struggling with pornography handle the deeper issue? Would you really suggest they not change up their routine and habits?

Your response is interesting to me. You seem to think people can have perfect victory in the Spirit over something like, let's just say, lust. Really, NOW? I know you're a man, so let's really think about that one a minute.

How would you counsel a young man coming to you with sex and porn addictions?

[BeenThinkin]

[QUOTE=Jeffrey;915937]

Originally Posted by notofworks

It was confusing because of the way you replied to my last post. I had to go back in and differentiate who was who speaking lol

I disagree, removing things can often times solve a person's problem. Maybe not the ultimate problem, but you let me know when you have that one nailed down tight.

Deeper issue to lust? It's called sin! It's called flesh! Not going to the counsel of the wicked, standing in the way of sinners, hanging out in the tents of the harlot, all of those will keep one from falling. Like any safeguard -- from a helmet to a bullet-proof vest, they only guarantee a form of protection. You aren't invincible.

How does one struggling with pornography handle the deeper issue? Would you really suggest they not change up their routine and habits?

Your response is interesting to me. You seem to think people can have perfect victory in the Spirit over something like, let's just say, lust. Really, NOW? I know you're a man, so let's really think about that one a minute.

How would you counsel a young man coming to you with sex and porn addictions?

GET HIMSELF A COMPUTER AND TV!!!! just kidding... and I know this is too serious to kid about. But I couldn't help myself! Is that what you're talking about? "I couldn't help myself???"

BeenThinkin

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

GET HIMSELF A COMPUTER AND TV!!!! just kidding... and I know this is too serious to kid about. But I couldn't help myself! Is that what you're talking about? "I couldn't help myself???"

BeenThinkin

BT...that post wasn't completely mine. The words you highlighted were Jeffrey's. He spliced up a post and didn't do a good job of it so it's confusing. I'm gonna have to send Jeffrey to EB's school of post-splicing.