Holiness Is Still Important

[allstate1]

Holiness does not have a thing to do with how we look. I am UPC and have always been. Here is the attitude of most; look at us we are wearing long sleeves and skirts we have long hair we are holiness! We dont do this and that and we pray like this!!! Well the only resemblance I found in the Bible to this is the Pharisee, and didnt Jesus rebuke them??!

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

It has gotten better in some respects. Even then I have noticed a lot of doctrines that are not filtered out that should be toward our kids and even adults. New Age views here and there that tend to form opinion. It would amaze you at the little stuff we miss that goesright by us that iscontrary to his Word but boy do kids pick it up. I think it's do to us having experience in many ways and a natural filter after time we just ignore it.

This is true, but it's not just television. I was raised without a television, and yet I still picked up ideas and perceptions that were incorrect. They can come from books, friends, radio, school, even church. (my church friends were some of my worst influences, to be honest!)

I think this is why it is just as important what we put into our children, not just what we keep out.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

There is definitely a lot of garbage on television. But there is also a lot that is not garbage. Especially with the advent of cable. I've found enough decent shows that I don't have time to watch them all. So it's very possible to watch tv in moderation and not once watch filth.

You can even get a TVGuardian if you want to, or a Clearplay machine. They'll filter out inappropriate content. Works as well as an internet filter.

Really, is the spirit of God inside of us completely overpowered by a television? I think the Holy Spirit is strong enough to speak to us even concerning television.

I agree.

But if a brother needs to make that move, or feels it's right for his home, I have no problem with that. God help me when I do. I become the "other party" in Romans 14.

This whole concept of "zero filth" is somewhat misleading too. I think it's about what is being appealed to. Is it a story with details that aren't too noble, but with a message that is noble? Or is it a program that has no point other than to glorify trashy worldiness? It's a question for my home we ask often.

Reading the Bible is full of stories with lurid and violent details. But the message keeps the intergrity of the story.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

It has gotten better in some respects. Even then I have noticed a lot of doctrines that are not filtered out that should be toward our kids and even adults. New Age views here and there that tend to form opinion. It would amaze you at the little stuff we miss that goesright by us that iscontrary to his Word but boy do kids pick it up. I think it's do to us having experience in many ways and a natural filter after time we just ignore it.

And that worldy attitude is not exclusive to television either.

It creates an opportunity for the believer to contrast their faith and worldview.

[notofworks]

[QUOTE=Jeffrey;915740]

Sure it will. How won't it? If I am an alcoholic, staying away from hanging out in bars is probably a good way to avoid falling back into alcoholism. Or... to be more correct, having liquor in my home is probably a good way to avoid the trap. That doesn't mean I'm no longer inclined to alcohol. But because Jesus is LORD, and nothing else is more important, I make no provision for the flesh in that instance.

Not sure how you could argue a person battling lust wouldn't be better off throwing the TV out. Not that I advocate that. I think there are other alternatives with the TV, but if a brother feels that will help, I certainly think it can. Overcoming lust is done by the Spirit working in us to produce good works. But much of our interference with God's good work is nestled in habits we've created over years and years. So I would assume discipline has some value. In itself, it creates moralism. Accompanied by the Spirit, it brings humility to the cross.

Your point only means that lust has always existed. No one is arguing that. Some actions we do and things we bring to our home cater to our weaknesses and not our more noble parts. As far as Amnon, I'm not sure all his evil habits. I'm not sure how much fooling around he had done before that. I'm not sure how often he watched the women bathe like David did with Bathsheba. Who can be sure. None of that overrides the point that a person battling with lust can change things in their environment that don't feed their struggle.

I don't.

If by itself, then yes. It's just moralism and self-righteousness.
If in humility, by the Spirit, it's sanctification in real-time.

Doing nothing is spiritual laziness. Continuing habits because grace "doth abound" is what Paul called foolish.

Jeffrey, let's take over this thread and fight! It's been a while!

Alcohol and TV are two far different things and nearly impossible to compare. A bottle of Vodka has one purpose...to get drunk. TV has many purposes. But, just for the sake of argument (and I hate to argue), I'll go with it. Let's say that one gets rid of all his alcohol (as well he should if he struggles with it), there's still the bottle of After Shave in his cabinet. I've seen people drink it. So he gets rid of the After Shave. There's still the Nyquil.

When does it end?

The answer lies in the only solution, and that is, when the heart is changed. That is the ultimate solution and it is the grace and power of God that can do that!

The one thing we do know about Amnon, is this....someone (Jonadab) talked him into it. So it would seem that our associations would be as, if not more, important than the "things" that tempt us.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I agree.

But if a brother needs to make that move, or feels it's right for his home, I have no problem with that. God help me when I do. I become the "other party" in Romans 14.

This whole concept of "zero filth" is somewhat misleading too. I think it's about what is being appealed to. Is it a story with details that aren't too noble, but with a message that is noble? Or is it a program that has no point other than to glorify trashy worldiness? It's a question for my home we ask often.

Reading the Bible is full of stories with lurid and violent details. But the message keeps the intergrity of the story.

You know, Jeffrey.....if someone thinks they should get rid of their TV, I would support them. But I would want them to understand it may not, and probably won't, change anything. But most importantly, they could not expect others to do the same. That's when it becomes legalism....when our personal preferences become another man's law. That's the definition of "Legalism."

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I agree.

But if a brother needs to make that move, or feels it's right for his home, I have no problem with that. God help me when I do. I become the "other party" in Romans 14.

I agree.... I think most here would agree - probably everyone. Jesus said 'if your eye offends you, pluck it out'. I don't think anyone minds if someone else throws out their television.

But, generally, as in the original post, it's not just "I am going to throw out my tv". It's "I'm going to throw out my tv and you should, too!" That's when people start objecting.

This whole concept of "zero filth" is somewhat misleading too. I think it's about what is being appealed to. Is it a story with details that aren't too noble, but with a message that is noble? Or is it a program that has no point other than to glorify trashy worldiness? It's a question for my home we ask often.

Reading the Bible is full of stories with lurid and violent details. But the message keeps the intergrity of the story.

I agree with that, too. I take into account the total message of the show/movie.

[Jeffrey]

[QUOTE=notofworks;915749]

Jeffrey, let's take over this thread and fight! It's been a while!

Put em up!

Alcohol and TV are two far different things and nearly impossible to compare. A bottle of Vodka has one purpose...to get drunk. TV has many purposes. But, just for the sake of argument (and I hate to argue), I'll go with it. Let's say that one gets rid of all his alcohol (as well he should if he struggles with it), there's still the bottle of After Shave in his cabinet. I've seen people drink it. So he gets rid of the After Shave. There's still the Nyquil.

When does it end?

It's not a hard-fast rule. You made the statement that those things won't help! If someone really wants to get drunk, they'll get drunk. But are you seriously telling me an alcoholic not hanging out with a keg on his lap isn't better off? lol

The answer lies in the only solution, and that is, when the heart is changed. That is the ultimate solution and it is the grace and power of God that can do that!

Change your heart all you way. We live in the already/not yet. I am not completely sanctified. I live in a body of death. Do you believe in triumphalism? Perfection?

The one thing we do know about Amnon, is this....someone (Jonadab) talked him into it. So it would seem that our associations would be as, if not more, important than the "things" that tempt us.

True, our associations are very important. Hang with sinners, but hanging with sinners that drag you into sin is foolish. Or hanging with sinners that consistently persuade you to do evil should be ended. It's just as much you as the sinner... just a bad combo. Glad we could agree

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I agree.... I think most here would agree - probably everyone. Jesus said 'if your eye offends you, pluck it out'. I don't think anyone minds if someone else throws out their television.

But, generally, as in the original post, it's not just "I am going to throw out my tv". It's "I'm going to throw out my tv and you should, too!" That's when people start objecting.

Yeah, I was responding to NOW's post specifically.

[Mirth1981]

Originally Posted by proudfather

From what I've read on this website thus far, I cannot imagine that this will be a popular thread. Never the less, I will post it anyway, because I am concerned about the Apostolic movement.

This movement has let go of a lot of things that it used to stand for. While most preachers still believe Acts 2:38, the message of Holiness has become a touchy subject. I was surprised when ministers sat on Bro. Guy Godwin when he taught against ladies cutting their hair. I thought that was a given! After all, 1 Corinthians 11:14-16 is still in the Bible. I love the way the NLT translates this passage: "14 Isn’t it obvious that it’s disgraceful for a man to have long hair? 15 And isn’t long hair a woman’s pride and joy? For it has been given to her as a covering. 16 But if anyone wants to argue about this, I simply say that we have no other custom than this, and neither do God’s other churches."

I'm not sure why we're suddenly confused about this subject. Men that preached this for years are now backing down from their previous stance. Television was preached against in the 60s. How much more so should we preach against it today? Every time this issue is brought up on this site, the same argument is presented; "What is the difference between Television and Internet?" I agree that anyone can use the Internet for evil if they want to. The same goes for the Bible. Let me explain. I can take the book of Song of Solomon and allow my imagination to run wild on certain verses. I can even take certain passages in the Gospel's and twist them to fit what I believe. If a person is determined to sin, then he will find a way. The Bible defines sin this way in James 4:17, "17Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

So should we preach against all technology? Of course not! What we need to consider here, is are we allowing ourselves to be tempted beyond what we can bear? If a person has a problem with porn, they shouldn't use the internet without the proper filters. In fact, no one should use the internet without the proper filters. If you have a problem with lust, don't watch video's that will awaken those desires. Here's what I believe. Don't watch Hollywood...period. Whether it's on a Television screen, DVD player, the internet, exc. don’t watch it! Television however, cannot be controlled. I can hear your responses now. "I control mine." "I've never watched bad programs on my TV set." Let me ask you a question, and you'd better answer it honestly. Has your definition of "bad" changed at all since you purchased that TV?

Me and my wife attended a church that let down the standard for a while. We went out and bought some movies during this ordeal, and we started out innocently enough by watching Disney movies, PG films, exc. However, we started watching Star Trek, Star Wars, Batman movies and other PG-13 films. Before we knew it, we were watching R rated films because they only contained one bad scene or just a few cuss words. The Holy Ghost convicted me in prayer and even though the church I was attending didn't preach against it, I got rid of every DVD that I owned.

Sound extreme? Let me tell you that Heaven is cheap at any price. I am willing to give up anything and everything if Christ convicts me to do so. Television may seem ok on the surface, but in reality, it is moving your boundaries. If it was wrong 30 years ago, it is still wrong today. Paul said, “For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor." I wouldn't want to stand in the shoes of a compromiser on the Day of Judgment. Scripture tells us that teachers/ministers are subject to a stricter judgment. I don't know about you, but I want to be saved.

Now, I will quote the words of Job: "Suffer me that I may speak; and after that I have spoken, mock on."

You're probably thinking that I am about 50 years old, ignorant, and countrified. Well, you're wrong on two accounts. I am in my 20's and I grew up in the city. I am ignorant, but God will use the unlearned to preach this Gospel. I am trying to learn more about him every day. I pray that I might know Him, in the power of the real Holy Ghost.

I don't think anyone will disagree with you that "holiness" is important. But how do you define "holiness?" does holiness=outward appearance to you? It does to many...

I agree with what you said about moving boundaries. I think a person should not move a line in their lives until they have done much prayer and studying, and have a clear understanding of why that boundary was there in the first place, because there is the possibility they will move it now and later regret it. The sad thing is many people have boundaries just because that is what they've been told to do by men, so they do it and believe it, even though God never asked them to.