Holiness Is Still Important

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Amen. And ironically ,many who espouse so-called "holiness" as clothing actually do it with an offensive manner purposely, thereby violating that ethic posted by the writer of Hebrews. There are many ways to say something. Good way and offensive way. Why do such folks usually choose the offensive way?

Some don't seem to know the difference between a sword and a scalpel.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Mirth1981

I wonder at what point it started being taught to not question men-of-God, and that questioning what you are being taught is an act of disrespect. Where did this mindset come from?

I don't know--but I do know that SOMETIMES questioning can be disrespectful, because it is done disrespectfully. I've seen/heard it happen. I've seen young ministers talk down to older ministers, be disdainful, mocking and generally condescending. Many older ministers aren't opposed to discussion, but they're not stupid, and they easily pick up on tone and intent. When they hone in on that, they're going to take the whole conversation off the table, and I don't blame them.

I believe in questioning and discussion, but if it's not done respectfully, then it is disrespectful [profundity alert]. If a young minister goes into it with the intent to make the older minister look bad or lose face, he's the one who's wrong.

On the flip side, there are preachers who take offense at anyone questioning the validity of their beliefs or asking for proof, context or scriptural backing. What that usually reveals is either a fear of the answers or the fear of revealing that they don't have the answers. In that case, I'd say leave it alone. Pushing a person who's afraid of investigation won't be profitable anyway. It's disrespectful (and impolite) to force someone into an unwanted conversation.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I don't know--but I do know that SOMETIMES questioning can be disrespectful, because it is done disrespectfully. I've seen/heard it happen. I've seen young ministers talk down to older ministers, be disdainful, mocking and generally condescending. Many older ministers aren't opposed to discussion, but they're not stupid, and they easily pick up on tone and intent. When they hone in on that, they're going to take the whole conversation off the table, and I don't blame them.

I believe in questioning and discussion, but if it's not done respectfully, then it is disrespectful [profundity alert]. If a young minister goes into it with the intent to make the older minister look bad or lose face, he's the one who's wrong.

On the flip side, there are preachers who take offense at anyone questioning the validity of their beliefs or asking for proof, context or scriptural backing. What that usually reveals is either a fear of the answers or the fear of revealing that they don't have the answers. In that case, I'd say leave it alone. Pushing a person who's afraid of investigation won't be profitable anyway. It's disrespectful (and impolite) to force someone into an unwanted conversation.

I don't think that questioning can take place respectfully unless you are willing to accept the answer of the person you ask. I don't think the felt disrespect by the minister stems from the questioner being disrespectful. I think its just that most ministers view it as disrespectful to ask a question and then have a problem with their answer.

[noeticknight]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

It's disrespectful (and impolite) to force someone into an unwanted conversation.

Humility Alert!!

Thanks for posting this, it struck a chord with me personally. I do believe my personal vendetta against questionable and unreasonable religious doctrines and attitudes has, on occasion, forced my online etiquette to take a backseat. Noeticknight humbly apologizes for having ever offended anyone by manner of rude or insensitive behavior.

The Excalibur must have intimidated the boy King Arthur. I suppose his clumsy grip and awkward wielding of it after pulling it from the stone may have frightened those standing nearby. Seems like finding truth and new authority carries this tendency.

[Mirth1981]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

On the flip side, there are preachers who take offense at anyone questioning the validity of their beliefs or asking for proof, context or scriptural backing. What that usually reveals is either a fear of the answers or the fear of revealing that they don't have the answers. In that case, I'd say leave it alone. Pushing a person who's afraid of investigation won't be profitable anyway. It's disrespectful (and impolite) to force someone into an unwanted conversation.

Or if one does question, even if respectfully, they often get labelled as being weak in faith, or on the verge of backsliding.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I don't think that questioning can take place respectfully unless you are willing to accept the answer of the person you ask.

Excellent point. My husband tells our kids not to ask him a question unless they're willing to take "no" for an answer. The same principle applies here.

I don't think the felt disrespect by the minister stems from the questioner being disrespectful. I think its just that most ministers view it as disrespectful to ask a question and then have a problem with their answer.

I agree with you on that, but sometimes young ministers are meaning to disrespect. When someone picks up on their motive, they cry foul and say, "You're just too scared to answer the question." (Which is tricky, because sometimes that's true.) I just know that I'm not going to have a conversation with someone I know is trying to trap me or make me look bad--or, if I do, it won't be without first putting up some serious brick walls.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I agree with you on that, but sometimes young ministers are meaning to disrespect. When someone picks up on their motive, they cry foul and say, "You're just too scared to answer the question." (Which is tricky, because sometimes that's true.) I just know that I'm not going to have a conversation with someone I know is trying to trap me or make me look bad--or, if I do, it won't be without first putting up some serious brick walls.

This is true, but not really what Mirth was talking about. She's talking about the idea that we are to accept whatever comes across the pulpit as gospel. To even scratch your head and think... hmmmmm, I just don't agree with that..... is considered disrespectful by many.

There are many preachers who truly don't want a congregation of people who really think.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by proudfather

Jesus also called the scribes and Pharisees hypocrites. Would that be considered rude?

Jesus spoke to people who knew better than to do what they were doing. He never did that with people who sincerely lived and practiced their beliefs.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Excellent point. My husband tells our kids not to ask him a question unless they're willing to take "no" for an answer. The same principle applies here.



I agree with you on that, but sometimes young ministers are meaning to disrespect. When someone picks up on their motive, they cry foul and say, "You're just too scared to answer the question." (Which is tricky, because sometimes that's true.) I just know that I'm not going to have a conversation with someone I know is trying to trap me or make me look bad--or, if I do, it won't be without first putting up some serious brick walls.

I agree with you there too. There are occasions where we look to trap each other. I think its usually the younger that try to trap the older too. But it does go both ways. I can understand why a minister would refrain from answering questions that are put forth to him by someone who might not accept his answers or try to trap him. I think thats why its so hard to have discussions in church about the doctrinal issues we discuss on here. I think it would be good if there was a time set aside for such questions to be asked but I don't know how or even if this could be implemented.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

There are many preachers who truly don't want a congregation of people who really think.

That's true. However, there's not really much you can do about that, as far as changing their mindset, so the only good response to that is either to think quietly , or attend a church where you're allowed to have [respectful] opinions.