Obama: some children raised by 2 Fathers...

[Praxeas]

We as a society dropped the ball a long time ago when it comes to nurturing real men. We focused on women. Our churches are no different either. That's why I hit hard on the magic hair crud, where God's only protection for a man is his wifes uncut hair.

Watch TV and you will see that man is always depicted as bumbling, stupid fools or soft emasculated boys. Nor did we help when it came to defining marriages. The 60s with free love and all that was the wrong kind of influence. Churches are afraid to stand up and preach against sin, preach real family values and order of creation.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

We as a society dropped the ball a long time ago when it comes to nurturing real men. We focused on women. Our churches are no different either. That's why I hit hard on the magic hair crud, where God's only protection for a man is his wifes uncut hair.

Watch TV and you will see that man is always depicted as bumbling, stupid fools or soft emasculated boys. Nor did we help when it came to defining marriages. The 60s with free love and all that was the wrong kind of influence. Churches are afraid to stand up and preach against sin, preach real family values and order of creation.

Jackie Gleason was funny to millions - but frankly, he scared me to death as a kid. I couldn't watch that. Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble were my next "role models." hmmm... And they were based on the Gleason/Art Carney duo.

As a kid growing up in the 60s and "coming of age" in the 1970s, I feel like our culture really failed the men of my generation. The cowboy westerns were a relic and the whole genre had slid into a self absorbed existentialist over analysis. In other words, the "heroes" raped and murdered their way through town dispensing "justice."

The only other available role models were closeted gays like "Mr. Brady" or "strong women." I remember going into my Jr. High current affairs class as a 7th grader right after the Bobby Whatshisname vs. Billy Jean King tennis "match." Our teacher openly taunted the boys and ridiculed us for the failings of a 50+ year old whose schtick was being a "male chauvinist pig" so that he could get one last fat paycheck before retirement.

King on the other hand, was a predatory lesbian at the top of her career. The teacher kept piling it on for the rest of the term. Unbearable. And this was one of my favorite subjects (current events - the 1973 war had just unfolded). Yet all I got was this lesbo taunting rant about how men are all failures.

I desperately wanted a hero. There were none. Even Captain America went "AWOL" at that time in the comic book. Having a dad that was often "AWOL" as well, I was ripe pickings for whatever the lamest thing around could throw my way. Bible fundamentalism turned out to be it. Why bother with a "real" education? The time of the end was at hand. And so, I frittered the best years of my life away on an illusory apocalyptic fairy tale.

I would have been better served to have angrily stood up against the whole thing and been labeled a "chauvinist" or worse and just fought it out instead of isolating myself within a womb of insecurity and fear. When most of my generation did pretty much the same thing we left the culture to continue to degrade without any strong voices to help guide the next generation. And so, the rot continues.

[Praxeas]

Add to that,

Riggs was 55, she was 29. Conner later played King and beat her with uneven rules

[Twisp]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

We as a society dropped the ball a long time ago when it comes to nurturing real men. We focused on women. Our churches are no different either. That's why I hit hard on the magic hair crud, where God's only protection for a man is his wifes uncut hair.

Watch TV and you will see that man is always depicted as bumbling, stupid fools or soft emasculated boys. Nor did we help when it came to defining marriages. The 60s with free love and all that was the wrong kind of influence. Churches are afraid to stand up and preach against sin, preach real family values and order of creation.

You are kind of generalizing, aren't you? There are many shows on TV where the man is not depicted how you describe.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Twisp

You are kind of generalizing, aren't you? There are many shows on TV where the man is not depicted how you describe.

The Simpsons, Family Guy, Married with Children, Two and a Half Men, How I met your Mother, Friends, The Cosby Show...

I don't watch much TV - and seldom any kind of "sit com," but they all seem to follow this template.

The "adventure" type shows seem to all have strong male leads who have rejected the "traditional family role" in order to be heroes. Jack Bauer, CIS, and all of the variants and spin offs.

I dunno, Twispy. Maybe you and I need to start submitting scripts?

[Twisp]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The Simpsons, Family Guy, Married with Children, Two and a Half Men, How I met your Mother, Friends, The Cosby Show...

I don't watch much TV - and seldom any kind of "sit com," but they all seem to follow this template.

The "adventure" type shows seem to all have strong male leads who have rejected the "traditional family role" in order to be heroes. Jack Bauer, CIS, and all of the variants and spin offs.

I dunno, Twispy. Maybe you and I need to start submitting scripts?

I don't know, Lost had several good male characters, Law and Order has strong male characters, The Middle does, Scrubs had several, That 70's show did when it still aired, Smallville does and did, NCIS, JAG, CSI Sons of Anarchy does.

My point is one can't say all of TV portrays men poorly. That is not true.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Twisp

I don't know, Lost had several good male characters, Law and Order has strong male characters, The Middle does, Scrubs had several, That 70's show did when it still aired, Smallville does and did, NCIS, JAG, CSI Sons of Anarchy does.

My point is one can't say all of TV portrays men poorly. That is not true.

That's probably true. I think I understand you a little better if you're sympathetic toward the "Red" character on That 70s Show. LOL.

[Twisp]

Originally Posted by pelathais

That's probably true. I think I understand you a little better if you're sympathetic toward the "Red" character on That 70s Show. LOL.

I am not sure how to answer, lol, or that I want to answer. I will cautiously say that I like his character, HOWEVER, I maintain the ability to say that I despise his character at a later time. lol

No, really, his character, for the time frame, was a good character. He was a type of individual that was having trouble dealing and changing with the new generation coming up. We can all understand that feeling, I think.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Twisp

I don't know, Lost had several good male characters, Law and Order has strong male characters, The Middle does, Scrubs had several, That 70's show did when it still aired, Smallville does and did, NCIS, JAG, CSI Sons of Anarchy does.

My point is one can't say all of TV portrays men poorly. That is not true.

That 70's show...yeah. Eric is a whimpy momma's boy. Red is a hard you know what father that verbally abuses the boy. That show is not a role model for sons, daughters, mothers or fathers.

The point was, there are plenty of shows out there that depict men in a bad light and families as all disfunctional

[Praxeas]

Red was cool, but Id have to say, if he was my dad growing up, I would have punched his lights out