This is the first time I've seen some of your claws! Scary!
JN, I appreciate you coming on here attempting to clear things up, with your photo and ID public. Through frustration, you set people off with some things, but it seems you apologized and it's not for AFF to accept, but for Baron.
You seem to believe the forum is dangerous, can get ugly, etc. and I'd say that it has that potential. But I think that's outweighed by the beautiful, articulate and heart-felt discussions that happen on AFF. It's imperfect people for sure. I don't think you will find a better group elsewhere. The difference is that some air it out even uglier about others in private -- and just for the sake of tearing down opponents. FYI LS and Oneness Pentecostals are not the only ones falling for this wannabe scholar business. Many charismatics are as well. But since we are all coming from a Oneness Pentecostal perspective, we do find it curious that exaggerated, often-shady citing of educational credentials is something of a Oneness Pentecostal phenom. Some on AFF that are very conservative with Water-Spirit doctrine, pro-UPC, etc have said the same and are upset about it. They want the group to buck up, have some integrity and character and to get their motives right. It does a disservice to those trying hard to not only earn legit degrees, but actually learn.
LS happens to be a huge targer because he has caused division over a non-Biblical doctrine. He has threatened his opposers, not with love, but with judgement and phony prophecy. (I've even heard he some more wild things he does than that... thinking "death list" for example, but I'll leave that alone for now). Throwing himself in the spotlight like that, posturing as a scholar, citing not only his prophetic skills as an elitist but also his ability to be a scholar, he deserves some academic scrutiny. What was discovered was not expected though.
I agree with much of what you said. I feel the same way bout the degree mills. I have well over 20,000 tied up on my education at Liberty. A few more at Northeast Texas Community College. And a few dollars at the old JCM. Guys who get a Ph.D for 4 or 5,000 are cheating themselves.
I agree with much of what you said. I feel the same way bout the degree mills. I have well over 20,000 tied up on my education at Liberty. A few more at Northeast Texas Community College. And a few dollars at the old JCM. Guys who get a Ph.D for 4 or 5,000 are cheating themselves.
Well, and I think guys that want to be national leaders, scholars, or teachers shouldn't waste their time at Cracker Jack Box University's. Even if they do some papers and homework. There's such a drastic difference in academic rigor. Our guys shouldn't take the easy way out -- at least if they plan on using that education as a hoist to lead and teach others, and especially if they want to encourage scholarship.
Well, and I think guys that want to be national leaders, scholars, or teachers shouldn't waste their time at Cracker Jack Box University's. Even if they do some papers and homework. There's such a drastic difference in academic rigor. Our guys shouldn't take the easy way out -- at least if they plan on using that education as a hoist to lead and teach others, and especially if they want to encourage scholarship.
Unfortunately Oneness “scholars” already have a very poor reputation among true PhDs. These diploma mill shenanigans only help to prove that Oneness leaders are not only ignorant and lazy but that they are also dishonest. Who can blame Trinitarians for their low opinion of Oneness scholarship when they see this kind of stuff and compare Oneness writings to true scholars like N.T. Wright, Fee, Walton, Bruce, Beale, France, Thiselton, Harris, … The list of great Trinitarian scholars goes on and on. These men have invested the time and money to master their fields of study. The difference in the quality of research between these men and Oneness writings is night and day.
LS can’t even figure out how to use his Strong’s concordance to find the right Greek word translated as long in 1 Cor. 11.
Unfortunately Oneness “scholars” already have a very poor reputation among true PhDs. These diploma mill shenanigans only help to prove that Oneness leaders are not only ignorant and lazy but that they are also dishonest. Who can blame Trinitarians for their low opinion of Oneness scholarship when they see this kind of stuff and compare Oneness writings to true scholars like N.T. Wright, Fee, Walton, Bruce, Beale, France, Thiselton, Harris, … The list of great Trinitarian scholars goes on and on. These men have invested the time and money to master their fields of study. The difference in the quality of research between these men and Oneness writings is night and day.
LS can’t even figure out how to use his Strong’s concordance to find the right Greek word translated as long in 1 Cor. 11.
I guess when you're a "prophet" you get to make things up as you go.
Unfortunately Oneness “scholars” already have a very poor reputation among true PhDs. These diploma mill shenanigans only help to prove that Oneness leaders are not only ignorant and lazy but that they are also dishonest. Who can blame Trinitarians for their low opinion of Oneness scholarship when they see this kind of stuff and compare Oneness writings to true scholars like N.T. Wright, Fee, Walton, Bruce, Beale, France, Thiselton, Harris, … The list of great Trinitarian scholars goes on and on. These men have invested the time and money to master their fields of study. The difference in the quality of research between these men and Oneness writings is night and day.
LS can’t even figure out how to use his Strong’s concordance to find the right Greek word translated as long in 1 Cor. 11.
What a phenom list of scholarly (and contemporary) names you just listed.
And... sadly, I have to agree. I will say, though, that these other scholars don't see a world as "Trinitarian vs. Oneness" scholarship. In fact, many of the scholars you listed divide among themselves. Douglas Moo would combat the notions of Fee in the whole Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate. Then throw in Fee's scholarly work with the charismata, Holy Spirit, etc and that sets him apart from the others. What I see are men that have taken a dive into Study, not set on being "this camp versus this camp." That's, afterall, not a scholarly attitude at all.
What a phenom list of scholarly (and contemporary) names you just listed.
And... sadly, I have to agree. I will say, though, that these other scholars don't see a world as "Trinitarian vs. Oneness" scholarship. In fact, many of the scholars you listed divide among themselves. Douglas Moo would combat the notions of Fee in the whole Calvinism vs. Arminianism debate. Then throw in Fee's scholarly work with the charismata, Holy Spirit, etc and that sets him apart from the others. What I see are men that have taken a dive into Study, not set on being "this camp versus this camp." That's, afterall, not a scholarly attitude at all.
Exactly! That is the beauty of true scholarship. Scholars with different views can debate openly about their differences while still respecting each other’s contributions. I doubt you would find that same openness to being questioned in Oneness circles. I haven’t seen it anyways. I see men in power who are scared to have open debate.
Exactly! That is the beauty of true scholarship. Scholars with different views can debate openly about their differences while still respecting each other’s contributions. I doubt you would find that same openness to being questioned in Oneness circles. I haven’t seen it anyways. I see men in power who are scared to be questioned.
In most cases, this would be considered a sign that they are actually wrong, and they know it. (I said most cases!)
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
... What I see are men that have taken a dive into Study, not set on being "this camp versus this camp." That's, afterall, not a scholarly attitude at all.
I can't remember who said it, but some wizen old sage I heard in a lecture once said, "There is no such thing as 'conservative scholarship' or 'liberal scholarship.' There is only good scholarship and bad scholarship."
I can't remember who said it, but some wizen old sage I heard in a lecture once said, "There no such thing as 'conservative scholarship' or 'liberal scholarship.' There is only good scholarship and bad scholarship."
Hybrid Mode
