Is this biblical??

OilCityCajun · #1 08-10-2010, 09:22 PM

This isnt just a Pentecostal phenomena. There are pastors in every denomination who usurp more authority than is rightfully theirs. No, pastors arent on the same level, because they have a higher responsibility, and with responsibility comes authority and vice-versa. I cannot speak to the details of your situation, nor can I judge whether your pastor is, indeed, controlling or if it's a matter of perspective. All I can tell you is not all Pentecostal pastors are this way, nor is Pentecost the only sect where it can be found.

I would suggest you take their advice on one point. Pray through soon and often and ask God to lead you to a place where you can reach you highest potential in Him.

Mr. Smith · #2 08-11-2010, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OilCityCajun

This isnt just a Pentecostal phenomena. There are pastors in every denomination who usurp more authority than is rightfully theirs. No, pastors arent on the same level, because they have a higher responsibility, and with responsibility comes authority and vice-versa. I cannot speak to the details of your situation, nor can I judge whether your pastor is, indeed, controlling or if it's a matter of perspective. All I can tell you is not all Pentecostal pastors are this way, nor is Pentecost the only sect where it can be found.

I would suggest you take their advice on one point. Pray through soon and often and ask God to lead you to a place where you can reach you highest potential in Him.

Ridiculous. He doesn't need to "Pray through." What the heck does that mean, anyway??? And, pastors are on EXACTLY the same level. According to I Corinthians 12 and Romans 12 we're all a part of the body working together. Offices are DIFFERENT, but not UNEQUAL.

OilCityCajun · #3 08-11-2010, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

...I have no idea how the context of your "Advice" would change the common meaning...

Then by all means allow me to break it down for you:

Quote:

Originally Posted by OilCityCajun

This isnt just a Pentecostal phenomena. There are pastors in every denomination who usurp more authority than is rightfully theirs.

My very first 2 sentences acknowledge that some pastors are, indeed, tyrannical usurpers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OilCityCajun

All I can tell you is not all Pentecostal pastors are this way, nor is Pentecost the only sect where it can be found.

and at the center of my post you find 2 more sentences acknowledging that some pastors are tyrannical usurpers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OilCityCajun

I would suggest you take their advice on one point... Pray through soon and often...

"...on one point..." clearly indicates I disagree with them on all other points. I.E.: I disagree that asking questions is a sign of rebellion, etc., etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OilCityCajun

ask God to lead you to a place where you can reach you highest potential in Him.

I close by telling him he needs to find a new church, but not one of his own choosing, but rather one to which God leads him. So you see? When you read the context without a preconceived notion and a bucket load of attitude, you find the context does indeed infer a different meaning to "pray through" than that which is commonly intended.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

But the dumbest thing you said was that pastors are on a higher level than everyone else. This poor kid came to the wrong place for advice.

Really? Are you saying the responsibility clearly laid on Ezekiel applies only to Ezekiel and not to all ministers, including pastors?

jfrog · #4 08-12-2010, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OilCityCajun

Then by all means allow me to break it down for you:

My very first 2 sentences acknowledge that some pastors are, indeed, tyrannical usurpers.
and at the center of my post you find 2 more sentences acknowledging that some pastors are tyrannical usurpers.

"...on one point..." clearly indicates I disagree with them on all other points. I.E.: I disagree that asking questions is a sign of rebellion, etc., etc.
I close by telling him he needs to find a new church, but not one of his own choosing, but rather one to which God leads him. So you see? When you read the context without a preconceived notion and a bucket load of attitude, you find the context does indeed infer a different meaning to "pray through" than that which is commonly intended.

Really? Are you saying the responsibility clearly laid on Ezekiel applies only to Ezekiel and not to all ministers, including pastors?

And what responsibility was laid to Ezekiel? And what makes you think we are not all ministers?

OilCityCajun · #5 08-12-2010, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

And what responsibility was laid to Ezekiel?

According to Ezekiel 3:16-21 It is the responsibility of the ministry to warn the wicked. Those ministers who fail to cry out against sin are held responsible for the souls of those who would have repented had the minister fulfilled his duty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

And what makes you think we are not all ministers?

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.
Many, not all, and only a few of those make the cut.

jfrog · #6 08-13-2010, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OilCityCajun

According to Ezekiel 3:16-21 It is the responsibility of the ministry to warn the wicked. Those ministers who fail to cry out against sin are held responsible for the souls of those who would have repented had the minister fulfilled his duty.
Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.
Many, not all, and only a few of those make the cut.

We are all to watch for one another and warn the wicked. That is a Christians duty.

It baffles me as to why you would cite Matthew 22:14 in response to not all being ministers. It is not about ministers at all...

Mr. Smith · #7 08-13-2010, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfrog

We are all to watch for one another and warn the wicked. That is a Christians duty.

It baffles me as to why you would cite Matthew 22:14 in response to not all being ministers. It is not about ministers at all...

He believes there are a special chosen few. It's a sad, abusive-submissive mentality.

Mr. Smith · #8 08-12-2010, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OilCityCajun

Then by all means allow me to break it down for you:

My very first 2 sentences acknowledge that some pastors are, indeed, tyrannical usurpers.
and at the center of my post you find 2 more sentences acknowledging that some pastors are tyrannical usurpers.

"...on one point..." clearly indicates I disagree with them on all other points. I.E.: I disagree that asking questions is a sign of rebellion, etc., etc.
I close by telling him he needs to find a new church, but not one of his own choosing, but rather one to which God leads him. So you see? When you read the context without a preconceived notion and a bucket load of attitude, you find the context does indeed infer a different meaning to "pray through" than that which is commonly intended.

Really? Are you saying the responsibility clearly laid on Ezekiel applies only to Ezekiel and not to all ministers, including pastors?

You can take a stick of dynamite to your post and blow it up into a million pieces if you like, but you still told the poor kid he needed to "Pray through." It is what it is.

You can put a bow tie and cummerbund on a pig, but it'll still be a pig.

Does it say anywhere in the book of Ezekiel and his beautiful descriptions of the Watchman on the Wall, that the "Watchman" is above anyone? Of course not. The pastor holds a different office than others, but not above. Sorry, but your elevated view of the ministry doesn't match the exhortations given in Romans 12 and I Corinthians 12 for each of us, regardless of our positioning in the Body of Christ, to fulfill that gift with joy. There isn't anything in the New Testament that places anyone in ministry above other people. Sorry.

OilCityCajun · #9 08-12-2010, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Does it say anywhere in the book of Ezekiel and his beautiful descriptions of the Watchman on the Wall, that the "Watchman" is above anyone?

Ummm lets see.... Walls around cities are usually higher than the rooftops and the people are not normally as tall as their own roofs so umm yeah, the watchman is above the people, at least so long as he is on the wall.

Ok, now let's get serious. Since you do not deny that all ministers share that responsibility of watching for the souls of those who hear them, lets now go on to the next step.

"Obey them that have rule over you, for they watch for your souls."

Checkmate.

Mr. Smith · #10 08-12-2010, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OilCityCajun

Ummm lets see.... Walls around cities are usually higher than the rooftops and the people are not normally as tall as their own roofs so umm yeah, the watchman is above the people, at least so long as he is on the wall.

Ok, now let's get serious. Since you do not deny that all ministers share that responsibility of watching for the souls of those who hear them, lets now go on to the next step.

"Obey them that have rule over you, for they watch for your souls."

Checkmate.

"Obey your spiritual leaders and do what they say. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they know they are accountable to God. Give them reason to do this joyfully and not with sorrow. That would certainly not be for your benefit."

A "Leader" isn't someone "Above", it's someone "In Front." Big difference if you care to actually pay attention to the meaning of what's being said, dimwit.