Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation.

[BroGary]

Originally Posted by jfrog

John 3:5 Only your faulty interpretation of that verse gives the impression that it says anything about baptism.

Mark 16:16 Never says anything about those who believe and aren't baptized. So, you can't base their fate on this verse.

2 Thessalonians 1:8 Paul tells us what he preaches in Romans 10:8-9

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Therefore obeying the gospel seems to be about confessing with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believing in your heart that God raised him from the dead.

You did not address my point from the last post that confessing the Lord Jesus and believing in your heart that God raised him from the dead was repentance.

It is so obvious that Peter clearly understood what Jesus meant by "except ye repent" and "except a man be born of water and of the Spirit" that is why he said what he did in Acts 2:38.

Well it should be obvious that since Mark said "he that believeth AND is baptized" shall be saved, that those who don't won't be.

Obey means more than merely believing, you can believe the speed limit is 55, but if you don't obey it you will be in trouble.

Also, in order to OBEY the gospel, you must first know just what the Bible means by "the gospel" and I Cor. 15 shows specifically that the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

We obey the death when we die out to our old life of sin in repentence.
We obey the burial when we are baptized in Jesus name.
We obey the resurrection by seeking and being filled with His Spirit, the Spirit that resurrected Jesus.

Repentence requires action, like in a earlier post it was showed as being defined as "amending" one's life.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by BroGary

It is so obvious that Peter clearly understood what Jesus meant by "except ye repent" and "except a man be born of water and of the Spirit" that is why he said what he did in Acts 2:38.

Bro. Gary, can you please prove that Jesus was speaking of water baptism in John 3:5?

Originally Posted by BroGary

Well it should be obvious that since Mark said "he that believeth AND is baptized" shall be saved, that those who don't won't be.

Originally Posted by BroGary

Obey means more than merely believing, you can believe the speed limit is 55, but if you don't obey it you will be in trouble.

True belief will be evidenced by actions.

Originally Posted by BroGary

Also, in order to OBEY the gospel, you must first know just what the Bible means by "the gospel" and I Cor. 15 shows specifically that the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

That is indeed the gospel

Originally Posted by BroGary

We obey the death when we die out to our old life of sin in repentence.
We obey the burial when we are baptized in Jesus name.
We obey the resurrection by seeking and being filled with His Spirit, the Spirit that resurrected Jesus.

ummm, where do you get that last step? You may want to tell the Apsotle Paul, because He seems to have had an oversight:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound ?
2 God forbid . How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein ?
3 Know ye not , that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed , that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Originally Posted by BroGary

Repentence requires action, like in a earlier post it was showed as being defined as "amending" one's life.

No one is arguing that true repentance includes/requires action on the part of the repentant, but this thread is about tongues and salvation, a theory not backed up with scripture.

[BroGary]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Bro. Gary, can you please prove that Jesus was speaking of water baptism in John 3:5?



True belief will be evidenced by actions.

That is indeed the gospel

ummm, where do you get that last step? You may want to tell the Apsotle Paul, because He seems to have had an oversight:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound ?
2 God forbid . How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein ?
3 Know ye not , that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed , that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:


No one is arguing that true repentance includes/requires action on the part of the repentant, but this thread is about tongues and salvation, a theory not backed up with scripture.

Reguarding the last step:

Your reply included: "like as Christ was raised up from the dead"

How was Christ raised from the dead ?
....by the Spirit

Likewise we are raised from being Spiritually dead by being filled with His Spirit.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

We will obviously just have to "agree to disagree" on the last point, while tongues in and of itself has no saving power, we do believe it is the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost which is very necessary.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by BroGary

Reguarding the last step:

Your reply included: "like as Christ was raised up from the dead"

How was Christ raised from the dead ?
....by the Spirit

Likewise we are raised from being Spiritually dead by being filled with His Spirit.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

We will obviously just have to "agree to disagree" on the last point, while tongues in and of itself has no saving power, we do believe it is the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost which is very necessary.

Who is arguing that anyone is saved WITHOUT the Spirit of Christ? No one.

However, those scriptures say absolutely nothing for the initial evidence doctrine, but merely point out the obvious fact, that if the Spirit of God has not entered into the unregenerate sinner, they have not been born again.

They are not in any way related to speaking in tongues.

[BroGary]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Who is arguing that anyone is saved WITHOUT the Spirit of Christ? No one.

However, those scriptures say absolutely nothing for the initial evidence doctrine, but merely point out the obvious fact, that if the Spirit of God has not entered into the unregenerate sinner, they have not been born again.

They are not in any way related to speaking in tongues.

I was simply answering other points that were brought up, but as far as tongues being the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost we have shown scriptural reasons for it, you chose to not agree, that is your right, so we just have to "agree to disagree" on that point :-)

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by BroGary

I was simply answering other points that were brought up, but as far as tongues being the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost we have shown scriptural reasons for it, you chose to not agree, that is your right, so we just have to "agree to disagree" on that point :-)

Bro. Gary, if you say that you have already shown scriptural reasons for tongues being the intial evidence, I will not argue, but I will simply repeat my earlier request, because I can't recalling reading sound biblical exegesis for tongues on this thread:

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Have you clearly shown from scripture? Proven with sound biblical exegesis and contextual support? If so, please provide the post numbers so that I may study those scriptures and cross refences to see if there is indeed something I have overlooked.

If you have already posted scriptural proof of the initial evidence doctrine, please alert my attention to the post number, so that I may consider the arguments thereof, and post a rebuttal if necessary.

[BroGary]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Bro. Gary, if you say that you have already shown scriptural reasons for tongues being the intial evidence, I will not argue, but I will simply repeat my earlier request, because I can't recalling reading sound biblical exegesis for tongues on this thread:

No offense intended, but it was simply not considered "sound" in your opinion, you are entitled to your opinion, and we obviously disagree on that subject :-)