Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Why not continue on a little farther. It is important HOW we call upon the
LORD!
Psalm 145:18
The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. [/B]

Paul is speaking to all that be in Rome, called to be saints.
This is speaking to those in Rome who have already been called
to be saints. Those who have already received the Holy Ghost.

The way we call upon the Lord is very important. It must be done in truth and that truth is what Paul preaches and what Paul preaches is found in Romans 10:8-9.

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

It is irrelevant who Paul is speaking to when he says "13 For whoseover shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved". The meaning and truth of that statement doesn't change depending on who is being spoken to. It could be said to sinners, to the pope, or to saints and it would still mean the same thing.

Do you know what trying to use the argument that Paul is speaking to saints shows in this situation? It shows the defense that when someone says Romans you say its to saints is so ingrained in you that you don't even think about saying it anymore. Instead, it just comes on cue.

[BroGary]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Romans 10:8-13

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

What is it that Paul preaches?
What shall happen when someone shall call upon the name of the Lord?

Hey, that didn't mention repentence, so you are saying just believing will save without repenting ? I don't think so :-)

What you wrote might focus on the faith aspect of salvation but it does not negate the necessity of also obeying the gospel.

Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Paul is speaking to all that be in Rome, called to be saints.
This is speaking to those in Rome who have already been called
to be saints. Those who have already received the Holy Ghost.

Sis Falla,

what evidence did Paul quote to the Roman believers that they had the Holy Ghost?

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed ; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren.

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits . Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down , and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law

STRANGELY TONGUES IS NEVER MENTIONED AS EITHER A FRUIT, OR OF EVIDENCE THAT WE KNOW GOD AND ARE HIS DISCIPLES.

Furthermore, lets just throw out all that stuff about Abraham being justified by faith in chapter 4. While we're at it, we can cut out chapter 3:21-28, chapter 1:17, All of Romans 5, parts of 6 & 7, of course do away with that pesky Romans 10. In the end we will have the equivalent of the Thomas Jefferson [pentecostal] version of Romans. Just cut out what doesn't agree with your doctrine. Its simple.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by BroGary

Hey, that didn't mention repentence, so you are saying just believing will save without repenting ? I don't think so :-)

What you wrote might focus on the faith aspect of salvation but it does not negate the necessity of also obeying the gospel.

Luke 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

I don't have a clue why you would quote John 3:5 or Mark 16:16 or even 2 Thessalonians 1:8?????????????? None of those verses say what you need them to say.

I've heard it said that repentance is a change of direction. If someone confesses with their mouth the Lord Jesus and believes in their heart that God raised him from the dead then I think it can be argued that they have changed direction.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Romans 10:8-13

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

What is it that Paul preaches?
What shall happen when someone shall call upon the name of the Lord?

Keep reading!

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith cometh by hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ! His death, burial and
resurrection! Then you must obey it. Repent, and be baptized, every one
of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall
receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. You shall receive power AFTER the Holy
Ghost is come upon you.
Fearful Peter before the cruxcifixion became very bold after Pentecost. He
and John were thrown in prison for being so bold with that name. The name
of Jesus was so powerful that those who opposed it, were afraid of it. Many
today, even denominal ministers speak against baptism in THE name of Jesus.
There's power in the name. There's power in the blood.

I wonder why those who argue against the gospel of Jesus Christ, don't
just go join those who also argue in denominal churches. There are plenty
of churches that argue the same things some of you on this forum argue.
They can be found in most every church in our city. We've seen them for
over 50 years. BUT there are those that have, and are continuing to come
out and have heard, searched out, and obeyed the gospel of Jesus Christ.
They have come out of darkness into His marvelous light. They have been
set free. They have seen the Light of the Glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ,
dispels the darkness. Darkness attempts to hide full truth. Part truth is
deception.

Have you that don't believe the apostolic message of truth, ever gone to a
denominal church. I can understand someone who was raised in another type
of faith, arguing against apostolic truth. But what's so unbelievable are those
who were raised in the apostolic faith, to argue so against the faith. I'm am
not speaking about standards, etc. I'm speaking about the apostolic plan of
salvation.

It is not my intention at all to be rude or disrespectful. If someone has not
brought you to Christ, you're still under the law. The law of sin and death.
The law could not make anyone righteous. The law was the schoolmaster
to bring us to Christ. Those that are Christ's are not under the law.

Falla39

[BroGary]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I don't have a clue why you would quote John 3:5 or Mark 16:16 or even 2 Thessalonians 1:8?????????????? None of those verses say what you need them to say.

I've heard it said that repentance is a change of direction. If someone confesses with their mouth the Lord Jesus and believes in their heart that God raised him from the dead then I think it can be argued that they have changed direction.

Those scriptures show that there is more to becoming born again that just believing, there was an expectation that if someone truely believed they would also obey what was required, if they didn't obey those scriptures then they really did not believe what was being preached to them what they had to do.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by BroGary

Those scriptures show that there is more to becoming born again that just believing, there was an expectation that if someone truely believed they would also obey what was required, if they didn't obey those scriptures then they really did not believe what was being preached to them what they had to do.

John 3:5 Only your faulty interpretation of that verse gives the impression that it says anything about baptism.

Mark 16:16 Never says anything about those who believe and aren't baptized. So, you can't base their fate on this verse.

2 Thessalonians 1:8 Paul tells us what he preaches in Romans 10:8-9

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Therefore obeying the gospel seems to be about confessing with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believing in your heart that God raised him from the dead.

You did not address my point from the last post that confessing the Lord Jesus and believing in your heart that God raised him from the dead was repentance.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Keep reading!

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Faith cometh by hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ! His death, burial and
resurrection! Then you must obey it. Repent, and be baptized, every one
of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall
receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. You shall receive power AFTER the Holy
Ghost is come upon you.
Fearful Peter before the cruxcifixion became very bold after Pentecost. He
and John were thrown in prison for being so bold with that name. The name
of Jesus was so powerful that those who opposed it, were afraid of it. Many
today, even denominal ministers speak against baptism in THE name of Jesus.
There's power in the name. There's power in the blood.

I wonder why those who argue against the gospel of Jesus Christ, don't
just go join those who also argue in denominal churches. There are plenty
of churches that argue the same things some of you on this forum argue.
They can be found in most every church in our city. We've seen them for
over 50 years. BUT there are those that have, and are continuing to come
out and have heard, searched out, and obeyed the gospel of Jesus Christ.
They have come out of darkness into His marvelous light. They have been
set free. They have seen the Light of the Glorious Gospel of Jesus Christ,
dispels the darkness. Darkness attempts to hide full truth. Part truth is
deception.

Have you that don't believe the apostolic message of truth, ever gone to a
denominal church. I can understand someone who was raised in another type
of faith, arguing against apostolic truth. But what's so unbelievable are those
who were raised in the apostolic faith, to argue so against the faith. I'm am
not speaking about standards, etc. I'm speaking about the apostolic plan of
salvation.

It is not my intention at all to be rude or disrespectful. If someone has not
brought you to Christ, you're still under the law. The law of sin and death.
The law could not make anyone righteous. The law was the schoolmaster
to bring us to Christ. Those that are Christ's are not under the law.

Falla39

The gospel of Christ is...

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

I colored a part of your post that I wanted to comment on. You are correct that the law could not make anyone righteous. Do you know what does make someone righteous? Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Believing with the heart makes a man righteous. Believing what? Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. So, believing in your heart that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead makes one righteous. How do you then say of those who God has declared righteous that if they are not baptized that they shall go to hell? Was hell not created for the unrighteous and not the righteous? Are they not righteous when they believe in their heart as the scripture says? So how can they be hellbound?

[BroGary]

Originally Posted by jfrog

John 3:5 Only your faulty interpretation of that verse gives the impression that it says anything about baptism.

Mark 16:16 Never says anything about those who believe and aren't baptized. So, you can't base their fate on this verse.

2 Thessalonians 1:8 Paul tells us what he preaches in Romans 10:8-9

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Therefore obeying the gospel seems to be about confessing with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believing in your heart that God raised him from the dead.

You did not address my point from the last post that confessing the Lord Jesus and believing in your heart that God raised him from the dead was repentance.

It is so obvious that Peter clearly understood what Jesus meant by "except ye repent" and "except a man be born of water and of the Spirit" that is why he said what he did in Acts 2:38.

Well it should be obvious that since Mark said "he that believeth AND is baptized" shall be saved, that those who don't won't be.

Obey means more than merely believing, you can believe the speed limit is 55, but if you don't obey it you will be in trouble.

Also, in order to OBEY the gospel, you must first know just what the Bible means by "the gospel" and I Cor. 15 shows specifically that the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

We obey the death when we die out to our old life of sin in repentence.
We obey the burial when we are baptized in Jesus name.
We obey the resurrection by seeking and being filled with His Spirit, the Spirit that resurrected Jesus.

Repentence requires action, like in a earlier post it was showed as being defined as "amending" one's life.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by BroGary

It is so obvious that Peter clearly understood what Jesus meant by "except ye repent" and "except a man be born of water and of the Spirit" that is why he said what he did in Acts 2:38.

Bro. Gary, can you please prove that Jesus was speaking of water baptism in John 3:5?

Originally Posted by BroGary

Well it should be obvious that since Mark said "he that believeth AND is baptized" shall be saved, that those who don't won't be.

Originally Posted by BroGary

Obey means more than merely believing, you can believe the speed limit is 55, but if you don't obey it you will be in trouble.

True belief will be evidenced by actions.

Originally Posted by BroGary

Also, in order to OBEY the gospel, you must first know just what the Bible means by "the gospel" and I Cor. 15 shows specifically that the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

That is indeed the gospel

Originally Posted by BroGary

We obey the death when we die out to our old life of sin in repentence.
We obey the burial when we are baptized in Jesus name.
We obey the resurrection by seeking and being filled with His Spirit, the Spirit that resurrected Jesus.

ummm, where do you get that last step? You may want to tell the Apsotle Paul, because He seems to have had an oversight:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound ?
2 God forbid . How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein ?
3 Know ye not , that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed , that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Originally Posted by BroGary

Repentence requires action, like in a earlier post it was showed as being defined as "amending" one's life.

No one is arguing that true repentance includes/requires action on the part of the repentant, but this thread is about tongues and salvation, a theory not backed up with scripture.