Using secular songs to open service for icebreaker

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I am unable to watch the video right now, so I googled the lyrics. I don't see alot of hop in them, but I guess the argument can be made its a positive message. ( I guess)

I also never heard of the band so I read the article about them on Wiki.

I fail to see the benefit in getting spiritual motivation from heathens. When we ought to be the light to them, they are seeming leading us?

Figures. Come to our church next Sunday and I'll point out nearly an entire audience that swore off church years ago, who are completely uninterested in "How Great Thou Art", but who will respond to "Seether", "Coldplay", "30 Seconds to Mars" "Switchfoot", or "Linkin Park." These people are in the field that God calls us to, but most of use are too busy insisting that Coldplay is evil, to listen to the hearts of the hurting, who need Jesus.

You wanna see a purpose in it? Accompany me next week and I'll introduce you to dozens of people, that The Church gave up on years ago, who are pursuing a relationship with Christ. It's AMAZING!!!

You should lead someone to Christ sometime. You might actually enjoy it!

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Figures. Come to our church next Sunday and I'll point out nearly an entire audience that swore off church years ago, who are completely uninterested in "How Great Thou Art", but who will respond to "Seether", "Coldplay", "30 Seconds to Mars" "Switchfoot", or "Linkin Park." These people are in the field that God calls us to, but most of use are too busy insisting that Coldplay is evil, to listen to the hearts of the hurting, who need Jesus.

You wanna see a purpose in it? Accompany me next week and I'll introduce you to dozens of people, that The Church gave up on years ago, who are pursuing a relationship with Christ. It's AMAZING!!!

You should lead someone to Christ sometime. You might actually enjoy it!

MR. Smith, this would be less offesnive if you din't know me. You well know that I don't put up walls to keep people away from God. Stick to the issues, not ad hominem tactics.

There IS ALOT of problems with the traditional church. I agree. And the traitional churhes have made themselves IRRELEVANT-I agree.

But the gospel isn't broken, we don't need unredeemed sinners to lead us to God, we need to humble ourselves and get the mind of Christ.

My personal desire is to do anything I can to lead people to Christ. But I'm not going to tell them something that isn't true. When it all comes down to it, the gospel message is still a message of deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow me. Everyone is trying to copy Lakewood and go for the multitudes, but Jesus wasn't impressed with multitudes, He was looking for disciples.

My church is EXTREMELY motivated to reach out to sinner and unchurched. That is a very hollow accusation directed at me. You know very well that I LEFT a church because they did the very thing your accusing me of.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

MR. Smith, this would be less offesnive if you din't know me. You well know that I don't put up walls to keep people away from God. Stick to the issues, not ad hominem tactics.

There IS ALOT of problems with the traditional church. I agree. And the traitional churhes have made themselves IRRELEVANT-I agree.

But the gospel isn't broken, we don't need unredeemed sinners to lead us to God, we need to humble ourselves and get the mind of Christ.

My personal desire is to do anything I can to lead people to Christ. But I'm not going to tell them something that isn't true. When it all comes down to it, the gospel message is still a message of deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow me. Everyone is trying to copy Lakewood and go for the multitudes, but Jesus wasn't impressed with multitudes, He was looking for disciples.

My church is EXTREMELY motivated to reach out to sinner and unchurched. That is a very hollow accusation directed at me. You know very well that I LEFT a church because they did the very thing your accusing me of.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

MR. Smith, this would be less offesnive if you din't know me. You well know that I don't put up walls to keep people away from God. Stick to the issues, not ad hominem tactics.

There IS ALOT of problems with the traditional church. I agree. And the traitional churhes have made themselves IRRELEVANT-I agree.

But the gospel isn't broken, we don't need unredeemed sinners to lead us to God, we need to humble ourselves and get the mind of Christ.

My personal desire is to do anything I can to lead people to Christ. But I'm not going to tell them something that isn't true. When it all comes down to it, the gospel message is still a message of deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow me. Everyone is trying to copy Lakewood and go for the multitudes, but Jesus wasn't impressed with multitudes, He was looking for disciples.

My church is EXTREMELY motivated to reach out to sinner and unchurched. That is a very hollow accusation directed at me. You know very well that I LEFT a church because they did the very thing your accusing me of.

Bold #1: The gospel has never been nor will be, broken. But its stewards are. You wanna hear the documented statistics? It's NOT a pretty picture. Bottom line? WE'RE LOSING!!!

Bold #2: Motivation is great. Every church is motivated. But motivated enough to actually abandon our WAY outdated tactics that haven't worked since the 1950's? Nope. Not very many. NewSpring is, though. They've baptized thousands and thousands in the last ten years.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Bold #1: The gospel has never been nor will be, broken. But its stewards are. You wanna hear the documented statistics? It's NOT a pretty picture. Bottom line? WE'RE LOSING!!!

Bold #2: Motivation is great. Every church is motivated. But motivated enough to actually abandon our WAY outdated tactics that haven't worked since the 1950's? Nope. Not very many. NewSpring is, though. They've baptized thousands and thousands in the last ten years.

How many are still there. If they're not making disciples, I'm not impressed. Like someone said recently ( I think it was John MacArthur). One of the churches in california claimed to have something like 20,000 new converts over the last 2 or 3 years, yet there church attendence only grew by 120.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

How many are still there. If they're not making disciples, I'm not impressed. Like someone said recently ( I think it was John MacArthur). One of the churches in california claimed to have something like 20,000 new converts over the last 2 or 3 years, yet there church attendence only grew by 120.

Very predictable. Any time folks like you hear of great reports, they use the "Yeah, but are they REALLY disciples." NewSpring was started about ten years ago and now has several locations with about 13,000 in attendance.

Sigh. Whatever.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

How many are still there. If they're not making disciples, I'm not impressed. Like someone said recently ( I think it was John MacArthur). One of the churches in california claimed to have something like 20,000 new converts over the last 2 or 3 years, yet there church attendence only grew by 120.

That tactic was in the bible. Lot of sowing but some on rocky soil, and most never took root.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by coadie

That tactic was in the bible. Lot of sowing but some on rocky soil, and most never took root.

Jason, this is when you seriously need to do a gut-check. When Coadie joins your team and agrees with you, surely you can recognize that you're in serious trouble.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Bold #1: The gospel has never been nor will be, broken. But its stewards are. You wanna hear the documented statistics? It's NOT a pretty picture. Bottom line? WE'RE LOSING!!!

Bold #2: Motivation is great. Every church is motivated. But motivated enough to actually abandon our WAY outdated tactics that haven't worked since the 1950's? Nope. Not very many. NewSpring is, though. They've baptized thousands and thousands in the last ten years.

The Holy Ghost is an outdated tactic.

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto myself. .

The Holy Ghost still draws people to repentence.
I have seen a lot of tactics. Mormons claim millions of baptisms.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by coadie

The Holy Ghost is an outdated tactic.


The Holy Ghost still draws people to repentence.
I have seen a lot of tactics. Mormons claim millions of baptisms.

Thanks for your deeply thoughtful and revelatory insights. Yawn.

No one said the Holy Spirit doesn't draw anymore, Toadie. In America, 17% regularly attend church services. You think something just might be wrong about sticking with 1950's strategies?