Using secular songs to open service for icebreaker

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Sermons...ement?q=Seeker

An interesting link

I've seen this before. Old news. Griping, complaining, negative, gibberish, I'm-right-you're-wrong, ugh.

Just have it your way, Jason. You're right. We Seeker types deny the cross, we just entertain, we don't care if people really change as long as we have a crowd, we're not committed nor are the people in our churches, we don't believe in or ask for sacrifice, Robert Schuller is the devil, Rick Warren is the anti-Christ, Bill Hybels only cares about a big crowd.

Sigh.

The internet is LOADED with hate-speech about these people. I can, also, find, at least, 10,000 pieces on the internet that hates on these guys.

Jealousy. Period.

If the internet had been going in 1 AD they would have been writing hate speech on Jesus and the disciples. So go ahead, Jason, believe it if you want.

Whatever.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

I've seen this before. Old news. Griping, complaining, negative, gibberish, I'm-right-you're-wrong, ugh.

Just have it your way, Jason. You're right. We Seeker types deny the cross, we just entertain, we don't care if people really change as long as we have a crowd, we're not committed nor are the people in our churches, we don't believe in or ask for sacrifice, Robert Schuller is the devil, Rick Warren is the anti-Christ, Bill Hybels only cares about a big crowd.

Sigh.

The internet is LOADED with hate-speech about these people. I can, also, find, at least, 10,000 pieces on the internet that hates on these guys.

Jealousy. Period.

If the internet had been going in 1 AD they would have been writing hate speech on Jesus and the disciples. So go ahead, Jason, believe it if you want.

Whatever.

Hate speech on Jesus? They crucified him.



I take it you have not read Rick Warrens book or his agenda?
It is fasinating. he has a doctrine and cherry picks bible verse translations to support it. He quotes phrases out of certain verses to justify his statements.

From a marketing merchandising standpoint, he does well. He markets to the unchurched. It is done so he gets people that are not suspicious of some of his false claims.

Seeker sensitive is old fashioned marketing. Take a survey and find what the customers want. In Corinthians, Paul preeched to change the culture. In seeker sensitive, the church conforms to the culture. he keeps pumping new products into the supply chain.

With my education, I just cruised thru his books and found who he borrowed self motivation and marketing tactics from. Every one from Tony Robbins to Steve Covey. There is goal oriented management, MBO, One Minute Manager stuff and then also a sprinkle of secular humanist phrases and quotes.

Look at his footnotes and see how many translations he clips small phrases from He does it to fortify his messaging.

You will also want to read the global
bestseller The Purpose-Driven Life, available
in bookstores or online.
59

No I am hungry for the WORD. I recalll one church that bought his program. From early on, it was get with the "Program" or get out.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by coadie

Hate speech on Jesus? They crucified him.



I take it you have not read Rick Warrens book or his agenda?
It is fasinating. he has a doctrine and cherry picks bible verse translations to support it. He quotes phrases out of certain verses to justify his statements.

From a marketing merchandising standpoint, he does well. He markets to the unchurched. It is done so he gets people that are not suspicious of some of his false claims.

Seeker sensitive is old fashioned marketing. Take a survey and find what the customers want. In Corinthians, Paul preeched to change the culture. In seeker sensitive, the church conforms to the culture. he keeps pumping new products into the supply chain.

With my education, I just cruised thru his books and found who he borrowed self motivation and marketing tactics from. Every one from Tony Robbins to Steve Covey. There is goal oriented management, MBO, One Minute Manager stuff and then also a sprinkle of secular humanist phrases and quotes.

Look at his footnotes and see how many translations he clips small phrases from He does it to fortify his messaging.


No I am hungry for the WORD. I recalll one church that bought his program. From early on, it was get with the "Program" or get out.

(In case it's not clear what this smilie means, it's typed out with a colon and then the word "Bored", which is an accurate description of what I am with your baloney)

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

I've seen this before. Old news. Griping, complaining, negative, gibberish, I'm-right-you're-wrong, ugh.

Just have it your way, Jason. You're right. We Seeker types deny the cross, we just entertain, we don't care if people really change as long as we have a crowd, we're not committed nor are the people in our churches, we don't believe in or ask for sacrifice, Robert Schuller is the devil, Rick Warren is the anti-Christ, Bill Hybels only cares about a big crowd.

Personally, I thought the content in the link was thought provoking. At your direction, I've been looking around for Bill Hybels stuff tonight.


General Teachings/Activities
- Bill Hybels (born 1952) is the senior pastor (out of a total of more than 50 staff pastors) of the 12,000-plus member Willow Creek Community Church located in Northwest-suburban Chicago (South Barrington, IL). (Three branch churches have also benn established in the Chicago suburbs.) When Hybels decided to plant a church at "Willow Creek" (the name of the rented movie theater in which the church first met), rather than "set-up shop" and faithfully preach the Word of God, he instead took a three-man survey team through the community, asking those people who admitted to being unchurched, why they did not regularly attend a church. The survey revealed that people: "(1) didn't like being bugged for money; (2) found church boring, predictable, and routine; (3) didn't think that the church was relevant to their lives; and (4) always left church feeling guilty (the Christian message too negative with 'sin,' etc.)."

Hybels solution was to "program our Sunday morning service [in addition to a Saturday evening "seeker service"] to non-believers, and program our service to believers [called "New Community"] on another day or evening [Wednesday and Thursday nights]," so that the newcomers would feel welcome, unthreatened, and entertained. Hybels states that it is absolutely essential that the "unchurched Harry's and Mary's" be introduced to a "creative, introductory level, positive, Bible-centered church experience on a Sunday morning ... a place designed for [the unbeliever]. We have put a lot of time and thought into what non-churched people want from a Sunday morning service. And we have concluded that they basically want four things: (1) anonymity; (2) truth presented at an introductory level; (3) time to 'make a decision'; and (4) excellence in programming, creativity, humor, contemporary [worship], relevancy, etc." (Source: Hybels' 1990 message: "Who We Are at Willow Creek.")
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/...ls/general.htm