Where is the five fold ministry?

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Sam

all around us.

Do you personally know one?

[mfblume]

If there is a church there is a five-fold ministry. Not everyone may be benefiting from it, though, but Paul said God set these ministries in the church, not just in the first century.

1 Cor. 12:28.

[pastorrick1959]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Do you personally know one?

yes i knew a FEW. they maynot be in every assembly ,should be , but maybot be . that would be according to how big ther congregation was and how they have been taught as well to pursue after callings and gifts!~

sam would you not say the 5 fold would be callings not gifts? just curious ..

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

yes i knew a FEW. they maynot be in every assembly ,should be , but maybot be . that would be according to how big ther congregation was and how they have been taught as well to pursue after callings and gifts!~

sam would you not say the 5 fold would be callings not gifts? just curious ..

I believe that the reasoning behind there not being a full compliment of the ministries put in place for the church (even multiple people operating in the various ministries) would rest very heavily on teaching rather than church size.

The reason I feel this way is because in the days of the apostles most all the congregations were small groups meeting in homes and yet they had these ministries in operation.

The view that ministry is a vocation is one cause for this. The church is left with the view that there are those who are "in the ministry" and then there are the rest of us rather than seeing ministry as something we all do to and for one another as well as the understanding that these words used (apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher & evangelist) should be viewed less as "what we are" and viewed more often as "what we do".

Mindset issues can shut down the birthing & nurturing of a church full of ministers.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

yes i knew a FEW. they maynot be in every assembly ,should be , but maybot be . that would be according to how big ther congregation was and how they have been taught as well to pursue after callings and gifts!~

sam would you not say the 5 fold would be callings not gifts? just curious ..

I think we use the terms interchangeably at times. In Ephesians chapter 4 where what we call the 5 fold (some just see 4 there combining pastors and teachers) ministry is listed it speaks of Christ's ascension and then His giving gifts unto men. Then the 5 ministries or callings are listed. So it appears they are gifts there although some say the gifts are not the offices but the men and women who fulfill those offices. Then in 1 Corinthians chapter 12 where Paul speaks of spiritual gifts he calls them gifts, administrations, and operations in verses 4-6. Then in verses 8-10 he lists 9 of them: word of wisdom; word of knowledge; faith; gifts of healing; working of miracles; prophecy; discerning of spirits; tongues (languages); and interpretation of tongues. Then in verses 28-30 he mentions: apostles; prophets; teachers; miracles; gifts of healings; helps; governments; tongues; workers of miracles; and interpretation. Then in Romans 12:6-8 he lists: prophecy; ministry (serving); exhortation; giving; ruling (we usually think of this as leadership or administration); and showing mercy.

I don't think we can limit the gifts of the Spirit to the 9 in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Read Ephesians 4

Yes read Ephesians 4, where does it say that those are official offices with authority in this passaged of scripture? All it say is that God gave... for the equiping of the saints for the work of the ministry. Where do you separate our ministry from what most call "the ministry"?

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

yes i knew a FEW. they maynot be in every assembly ,should be , but maybot be . that would be according to how big ther congregation was and how they have been taught as well to pursue after callings and gifts!~

Rick as has been said it has nothing to do with size of congregation but frame of mind from the pulpit. If the pastor is over authoritive and controling his spirit will not allow the gifts of the spirit to work.

sam would you not say the 5 fold would be callings not gifts? just curious ..

As for the 5 fold being callings and not gifts, I used to understand it that way as that was the way I was taught and the way I preached. It was after I left the organization that God was able to show me how things could be differant in this kingdom if we got mans pride and self out of the way and just allowed God to control things.

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I believe that the reasoning behind there not being a full compliment of the ministries put in place for the church (even multiple people operating in the various ministries) would rest very heavily on teaching rather than church size.

The reason I feel this way is because in the days of the apostles most all the congregations were small groups meeting in homes and yet they had these ministries in operation.

The view that ministry is a vocation is one cause for this. The church is left with the view that there are those who are "in the ministry" and then there are the rest of us rather than seeing ministry as something we all do to and for one another as well as the understanding that these words used (apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher & evangelist) should be viewed less as "what we are" and viewed more often as "what we do".

Mindset issues can shut down the birthing & nurturing of a church full of ministers.

I agree with you Digging the ministry should not be viewed as a vocation or a calling, in OT times God raised up a prophet when times came to a head and he was going to judge the people. These were only for a time. The only appointed priest were the family of Araon and they had not spiritual control over the people. Thier job was to minister in the tabernacle. As Jesus is our high priest now we no longer have the office of priest hood. Prophets, pastors/teachers, Apostles, evangelist, healing, gift of tongues, etc God raises up in the church as the need arises, and it need not be the same person each time.

Originally Posted by Sam

I think we use the terms interchangeably at times. In Ephesians chapter 4 where what we call the 5 fold (some just see 4 there combining pastors and teachers) ministry is listed it speaks of Christ's ascension and then His giving gifts unto men. Then the 5 ministries or callings are listed. So it appears they are gifts there although some say the gifts are not the offices but the men and women who fulfill those offices. Then in 1 Corinthians chapter 12 where Paul speaks of spiritual gifts he calls them gifts, administrations, and operations in verses 4-6. Then in verses 8-10 he lists 9 of them: word of wisdom; word of knowledge; faith; gifts of healing; working of miracles; prophecy; discerning of spirits; tongues (languages); and interpretation of tongues. Then in verses 28-30 he mentions: apostles; prophets; teachers; miracles; gifts of healings; helps; governments; tongues; workers of miracles; and interpretation. Then in Romans 12:6-8 he lists: prophecy; ministry (serving); exhortation; giving; ruling (we usually think of this as leadership or administration); and showing mercy.

I don't think we can limit the gifts of the Spirit to the 9 in 1 Corinthians 12:8-10.

Sam as far as I am concerned your post and views show true christian caricture. Keep up the good work.