Misssionaries With God Complexes

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I'm a little confused. Why don't the Americans who claim Americans aren't giving enough give more and give until it hurts? I mean if they really believe they could be doing more then why aren't they doing more?

I don't mean to pick on you MissB. It is just your post exemplified what I seen in this thread. I have not read all of the thread though. I also want to note that when I say you, I'm not just referring just to MissB, I'm referring to anyone who believes we should be doing more.

You really need to read the entire thread. Furthermore, I know where the original post came from, and that poster knows better.

I have no problem with a missionary describing conditions over there and asking if I can give more or do more. I have a problem with a missionary telling me that if I don't give more then I am not doing enough.

I also have a problem with fellow Americans telling me I should give more to missions just because I can. I say that if they believe that then they should give more to missions just because they can.

I can see why Owl was offended by the missionaries post. It accused most every American of not loving Jesus because their actions in terms of giving to missions don't show it. It also said that the reason that the giving to missions doesn't show a love for Jesus was because we have a comparitive excess and could be doing more. I think Owl shouldn't be the only one offended by those words. Every American Christian who could be doing more should be offended for being accused of not loving Jesus. The fact is we all could be giving more and as long as we aren't giving all that we can then by the words of that missionary we don't love Jesus. I hope I've explained mine and Owl's problem with that statement.

By the way, Sis Alevear I forgive you and don't think you purposefully meant for your words to mean all of that.

Sister Alvear didn't say anything that requires forgiveness.

jfrog, generally speaking, Americans are spoiled. We don't have nearly the hardship of other countries. Most Christians don't suffer for their religion in this country, but in other countries it can mean persecution, harassment, prison or even death. Even when we are scraping by, we still have more, generally speaking, than millions of other people all over the world. So, by that token, even when we "give till it hurts", we aren't truly hurting.

When my husband and I look over the budget to decide what we can give, we give us much as is comfortable. We give generously, but we aren't taking anything off the table for ourselves in order to do so. There HAVE been times when my husband was out of work or when his income was down when it was difficult to give tithes and offerings, but we did it anyway--and I'm convinced that God has blessed us for being faithful. Even in those times when our finances were tight, we never went without true necessities.

I'm informed enough to know that this is the case for MOST Americans. Ergo, I can speak for most of us when I say that while we are generous, it is true that we are STILL spoiled.

That's not to say that our blessings are a bad thing. We should be thankful and appreciate what we have and be good stewards of what God has given us. But I think we can take what a missionary has to say from another perspective and appreciate it for what it means--that some people are too caught up in their traditional lifestyle of plenty and comfort to think about the pain of others.

As for "getting my hands dirty"...I'm not going to make you a list, but suffice it to say that I've been on the side of ministry long enough to know that very few [statistically--man, I hate having to qualify every little statement] are willing to actually do what is needed. Most would PREFER to throw money at a problem because that's easy and it alleviates the guilt of laziness. That's a fact, and if it makes you uncomfortable, too bad. I grew up in a pastor's home and I've been in ministry my entire life, and I've seen how few people actually want to "work" for the kingdom of God. There's an old statistic that says 20% of the people do 80% of the work, and it holds true for the most part. You have people who work, and you have others who expect to be served. That's just the way it is. I don't resent it, but I would be an ostrich if I didn't acknowledge it. I've personally seen people refuse to go to certain areas of town, so they will offer money to an effort instead. That's not to say that we shouldn't give, because obviously we can't all go overseas and we can't all immerse ourselves in charity, so it makes sense to support those who can. However, it would be obtuse to ignore the fact that money makes it easy for spoiled Christians to keep their hands quite clean and shiny.

It would do us all good to remember that God destroyed Sodom because of their lack of charity, among other things:

Ezekiel 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

[Owl]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

You really need to read the entire thread. Furthermore, I know where the original post came from, and that poster knows better.



Sister Alvear didn't say anything that requires forgiveness.

jfrog, generally speaking, Americans are spoiled. We don't have nearly the hardship of other countries. Most Christians don't suffer for their religion in this country, but in other countries it can mean persecution, harassment, prison or even death. Even when we are scraping by, we still have more, generally speaking, than millions of other people all over the world. So, by that token, even when we "give till it hurts", we aren't truly hurting.

When my husband and I look over the budget to decide what we can give, we give us much as is comfortable. We give generously, but we aren't taking anything off the table for ourselves in order to do so. There HAVE been times when my husband was out of work or when his income was down when it was difficult to give tithes and offerings, but we did it anyway--and I'm convinced that God has blessed us for being faithful. Even in those times when our finances were tight, we never went without true necessities.

I'm informed enough to know that this is the case for MOST Americans. Ergo, I can speak for most of us when I say that while we are generous, it is true that we are STILL spoiled.

That's not to say that our blessings are a bad thing. We should be thankful and appreciate what we have and be good stewards of what God has given us. But I think we can take what a missionary has to say from another perspective and appreciate it for what it means--that some people are too caught up in their traditional lifestyle of plenty and comfort to think about the pain of others.

As for "getting my hands dirty"...I'm not going to make you a list, but suffice it to say that I've been on the side of ministry long enough to know that very few [statistically--man, I hate having to qualify every little statement] are willing to actually do what is needed. Most would PREFER to throw money at a problem because that's easy and it alleviates the guilt of laziness. That's a fact, and if it makes you uncomfortable, too bad. I grew up in a pastor's home and I've been in ministry my entire life, and I've seen how few people actually want to "work" for the kingdom of God. There's an old statistic that says 20% of the people do 80% of the work, and it holds true for the most part. You have people who work, and you have others who expect to be served. That's just the way it is. I don't resent it, but I would be an ostrich if I didn't acknowledge it. I've personally seen people refuse to go to certain areas of town, so they will offer money to an effort instead. That's not to say that we shouldn't give, because obviously we can't all go overseas and we can't all immerse ourselves in charity, so it makes sense to support those who can. However, it would be obtuse to ignore the fact that money makes it easy for spoiled Christians to keep their hands quite clean and shiny.

It would do us all good to remember that God destroyed Sodom because of their lack of charity, among other things:

Ezekiel 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

Miss B, your post cracks me up. You join the hallelujah chorus railing against American giving, and describe us as spoiled and lazy, yet you choose to only give what is comfortable. That is not sacrifice.

The TRUTH is, thousands of American ministers give far and above what is comfortable. They don't give out of abundance, they give even though it DOES take food off of their table. They give and give and give.

If you can't see that the missionaries, and the work they do, are funded much better than American pastors and home missionaries you're blind.

It's one thing to complain about the poverty of foreigners. No one will disagree there is a great disparity between America and third world nations. It's another to say we should provide welfare to people who won't change their own governmental policies to become economically prosperous.

Every Christian should feel compelled to give to missions because of a burden for souls. Missions work, however, does not exist to end poverty and correct social injustices.

Lastly, some of the folks who have been the most aghast on this thread probably never involve themselves in any spiritual outreach work. They throw a bit of extra money at missions and think they have fulfilled the Great Commission. That Commission is to "go," NOT spend.

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by Owl

Miss B, your post cracks me up. You join the hallelujah chorus railing against American giving, and describe us as spoiled and lazy, yet you choose to only give what is comfortable. That is not sacrifice.

The TRUTH is, thousands of American ministers give far and above what is comfortable. They don't give out of abundance, they give even though it DOES take food off of their table. They give and give and give.

If you can't see that the missionaries, and the work they do, are funded much better than American pastors and home missionaries you're blind.

It's one thing to complain about the poverty of foreigners. No one will disagree there is a great disparity between America and third world nations. It's another to say we should provide welfare to people who won't change their own governmental policies to become economically prosperous.

Every Christian should feel compelled to give to missions because of a burden for souls. Missions work, however, does not exist to end poverty and correct social injustices.

Lastly, some of the folks who have been the most aghast on this thread probably never involve themselves in any spiritual outreach work. They throw a bit of extra money at missions and think they have fulfilled the Great Commission. That Commission is to "go," NOT spend.

I go AND spend for missions, as much and as often as I can. There is no greater honor. Your attack on Sis. Alvear was uncalled for; you obviously don't know them personally.

[Owl]

Originally Posted by Sherri

I go AND spend for missions, as much and as often as I can. There is no greater honor. Your attack on Sis. Alvear was uncalled for; you obviously don't know them personally.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I did not attack her, I took issue with her very, very insulting comments. Your commitment to missions is admirable.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Owl

Miss B, your post cracks me up. You join the hallelujah chorus railing against American giving, and describe us as spoiled and lazy, yet you choose to only give what is comfortable. That is not sacrifice.

The TRUTH is, thousands of American ministers give far and above what is comfortable. They don't give out of abundance, they give even though it DOES take food off of their table. They give and give and give.

If you can't see that the missionaries, and the work they do, are funded much better than American pastors and home missionaries you're blind.

It's one thing to complain about the poverty of foreigners. No one will disagree there is a great disparity between America and third world nations. It's another to say we should provide welfare to people who won't change their own governmental policies to become economically prosperous.

Every Christian should feel compelled to give to missions because of a burden for souls. Missions work, however, does not exist to end poverty and correct social injustices.

Lastly, some of the folks who have been the most aghast on this thread probably never involve themselves in any spiritual outreach work. They throw a bit of extra money at missions and think they have fulfilled the Great Commission. That Commission is to "go," NOT spend.

Really?

[Owl]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Really?

Very much so.

Consider: Most missionaries get cars and a salary for life.

I don't know any home missionaries with that luxury.

I think it's great that missionaries are well cared for.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Owl

Very much so.

Consider: Most missionaries get cars and a salary for life.

I don't know any home missionaries with that luxury.

I think it's great that missionaries are well cared for.

You know what.....I think you need to remember that the lady that you were offended by IS NOT supported by WEC. You DO NOT know her circumstances.

Plus, you do know that if someone wants to give a UPC missionary additional money (above their self-raised budget) that the missionary is required to report the amount so that it can be deducted from their monthly check?

[Owl]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

You know what.....I think you need to remember that the lady that you were offended by IS NOT supported by WEC. You DO NOT know her circumstances.

Plus, you do know that if someone wants to give a UPC missionary additional money (above their self-raised budget) that the missionary is required to report the amount so that it can be deducted from their monthly check?

Yes, I know all of that. I'm glad they are well cared for.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Owl

Yes, I know all of that. I'm glad they are well cared for.

But, you're upset that home missionaries don't have the same?

[timjoiner]

Originally Posted by Owl

Very much so.

Consider: Most missionaries get cars and a salary for life.

I don't know any home missionaries with that luxury.

I think it's great that missionaries are well cared for.

I hardly ever post but I would like to comment here.....

Most missionaries that I know are very capable business people. That is how we end up with structured organizations that we do. Sensible people don't mind investing into the Kingdom of God when they can see and hear about where their money is going.
The same people could be in North America with a great income....If you compare what they could have, as to what they retire with, we are talking peanuts.

If you think it is such a lap of luxury...we will move over and let you have at it.

I think that you are a "Bitter Bozo"...you certainly don't know Sis. Alvear to speak of her in the manner that you do.

Owl...You need a "Boot to your Hoot!"