Speaking In Tongues Does Not Equal Salvation.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by BroGary

"repent" does infer more than "just" being sorry but also infers action in making a change in the direction of one's life.

from the merriam-webster.com dictionary:

"1 : to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life"

Someone we know who spent time in England while in the military noticed that when the Brittish soldiers were marching in formation and the drill instructer wanted them to go in the opposition direction they would give the command "REPENT !", which they understood meant to do an 180 degree turn and go in the opposite direction.

the word "converted" from merriam-webster.com includes:

"1 a : to bring over from one belief, view, or party to another"

So it would seem to repent and be converted would mean to be sorry enough for your sins that you take action in making a change in your life's direction from a life of sin, and also change (convert) your belief from how you used to believe to the gospel truth, and of course if you really believe the truth you will also obey the truth and be baptized in Jesus name and seek to receive the Holy Ghost.

Bro. Gary, you and I share the same doctrinal belief as pertains to salvation, but I must agree with Dan on this point...oh, what is this world coming to?!

But, alas, tis true. Using the dictionary to support a view rather than Strong's doesn't ring as an accurate response, IMHO.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Barb

Bro. Gary, you and I share the same doctrinal belief as pertains to salvation, but I must agree with Dan on this point...oh, what is this world coming to?!

But, alas, tis true. Using the dictionary to support a view rather than Strong's doesn't ring as an accurate response, IMHO.

Repent:

Strongs
G3340
μετανοέω
metanoeō
met-an-o-eh'-o
From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.

Thayers

G3340
μετανοέω
metanoeō
Thayer Definition:
1) to change one’s mind, i.e. to repent
2) to change one’s mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G3326 and G3539
Citing in TDNT: 4:975, 636

[BroGary]

Originally Posted by Barb

Bro. Gary, you and I share the same doctrinal belief as pertains to salvation, but I must agree with Dan on this point...oh, what is this world coming to?!

But, alas, tis true. Using the dictionary to support a view rather than Strong's doesn't ring as an accurate response, IMHO.

no offense intended at all sis, but even one of the definitions he posted inferred more than merely feeling sorrow, but taking action -

"heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins"

(and as I mentioned, repent is used as a military command to go in the opposite direction :-)

Anyhow, at least we agree it takes obedience to what Peter preached in Acts 2:38 to become born again :-)

[Barb]

Originally Posted by BroGary

no offense intended at all sis, but even one of the definitions he posted inferred more than merely feeling sorrow, but taking action -

"heartily to amend with abhorrence of one’s past sins"

(and as I mentioned, repent is used as a military command to go in the opposite direction :-)

Anyhow, at least we agree it takes obedience to what Peter preached in Acts 2:38 to become born again :-)

No offense taken, and I stand corrected according to your evidence...

However, I must be a dunce because it doesn't make sense to me. If they are not separate acts, repentance and conversion, why did Peter say, "AND be converted."

I am not as scholarly as some of the rest here, but do know that kai has several meanings...and, which is, also.

It reading the Scripture, it would appear that 'and' is what fits, SO...can someone brighter than this sister explain it?

We cannot base theology on experience alone, but I can tell you that I have seen people whom I know personally to repent...truly repent with godly sorrow, again and again.

But for whatever reason, that is as far as it goes. They don't ever seem to go any farther in God than being sorry.

Some have said that they never FULLY repented, whatever that means. However, the people of whom I speak are backsliders, who upon repentance, spoke in tongues with joy.

IMO, they were never converted. Though brought to a place of regret and sorrow, they never turned and made a change.

It was a momentary heart change, but not a life change.

Please explain this so a 2 year old can understand it...

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Barb

No offense taken, and I stand corrected according to your evidence...

However, I must be a dunce because it doesn't make sense to me. If they are not separate acts, repentance and conversion, why did Peter say, "AND be converted."

I am not as scholarly as some of the rest here, but do know that kai has several meanings...and, which is, also.

It reading the Scripture, it would appear that 'and' is what fits, SO...can someone brighter than this sister explain it?

We cannot base theology on experience alone, but I can tell you that I have seen people whom I know personally to repent...truly repent with godly sorrow, again and again.

But for whatever reason, that is as far as it goes. They don't ever seem to go any farther in God than being sorry.

Some have said that they never FULLY repented, whatever that means. However, the people of whom I speak are backsliders, who upon repentance, spoke in tongues with joy.

IMO, they were never converted. Though brought to a place of regret and sorrow, they never turned and made a change.

It was a momentary heart change, but not a life change.

Please explain this so a 2 year old can understand it...

Change of mind produces change of action. If the change of mind is just a temporary change the actions will only change temporally.

This could be why we need to have the mind of Christ.

The Word does say that as a man thinks in his heart so is he. Perhaps those that do not full commit to a changed life do not believe they can or that they are not worthy or.........

[BroGary]

Originally Posted by Barb

No offense taken, and I stand corrected according to your evidence...

However, I must be a dunce because it doesn't make sense to me. If they are not separate acts, repentance and conversion, why did Peter say, "AND be converted."

I am not as scholarly as some of the rest here, but do know that kai has several meanings...and, which is, also.

It reading the Scripture, it would appear that 'and' is what fits, SO...can someone brighter than this sister explain it?

We cannot base theology on experience alone, but I can tell you that I have seen people whom I know personally to repent...truly repent with godly sorrow, again and again.

But for whatever reason, that is as far as it goes. They don't ever seem to go any farther in God than being sorry.

Some have said that they never FULLY repented, whatever that means. However, the people of whom I speak are backsliders, who upon repentance, spoke in tongues with joy.

IMO, they were never converted. Though brought to a place of regret and sorrow, they never turned and made a change.

It was a momentary heart change, but not a life change.

Please explain this so a 2 year old can understand it...

Hey sis, hope this helps clarify what I am trying to convey, sometimes in my mind I know what I am trying to say but have to think of how to communicate it effectively :-)

As far as the difference between repent and converted, repentance would cover the part where the person feels sorry enough for their sins to amend how they live.

Converted would cover them actually changing their religious views from what they used to believe to believing the gospel truth.

the word "converted" from merriam-webster.com includes:

"1 a : to bring over from one belief, view, or party to another"

People in the world who just repent without converting would be like when someone just "turns over a new leaf" so to speak. There are people in the world that reach a point in their lives where they regret how they lived enough to make a change (stop drinking and/or drugs, ect.) but without actually converting (changing their religious belief to the gospel truth).

Perhaps the apostle wanted to be sure they realized that just "turning over a new leaf" was not enough, they had to also convert their belief to the gospel truth and obey it.

[RevDWW]

It's seem Peter is saying to change your heart and mind (repent) and then change your direction(convert).

Belief and action!

[Barb]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Change of mind produces change of action. If the change of mind is just a temporary change the actions will only change temporally.

This could be why we need to have the mind of Christ.

The Word does say that as a man thinks in his heart so is he. Perhaps those that do not full commit to a changed life do not believe they can or that they are not worthy or.........

Originally Posted by BroGary

Hey sis, hope this helps clarify what I am trying to convey, sometimes in my mind I know what I am trying to say but have to think of how to communicate it effectively :-)

As far as the difference between repent and converted, repentance would cover the part where the person feels sorry enough for their sins to amend how they live.

Converted would cover them actually changing their religious views from what they used to believe to believing the gospel truth.

the word "converted" from merriam-webster.com includes:

"1 a : to bring over from one belief, view, or party to another"

People in the world who just repent without converting would be like when someone just "turns over a new leaf" so to speak. There are people in the world that reach a point in their lives where they regret how they lived enough to make a change (stop drinking and/or drugs, ect.) but without actually converting (changing their religious belief to the gospel truth).

Perhaps the apostle wanted to be sure they realized that just "turning over a new leaf" was not enough, they had to also convert their belief to the gospel truth and obey it.

Originally Posted by RevDWW

It's seem Peter is saying to change your heart and mind (repent) and then change your direction(convert).

Belief and action!

Then we are all saying the same thing...?

Good! Thanks, guys...

[BroGary]

Originally Posted by Barb

Then we are all saying the same thing...?

Good! Thanks, guys...

No problem, and not trying to start a fuss, but..... :-)

.....something interesting to also consider that I didn't think of before is that Jesus near the end of His earthly ministry told Peter "when thou art converted" so it seems that Jesus did not consider Peter "converted" at that time, even though I'm sure Peter had repented and was likely baptised unto repentence by John's baptism. After Jesus resurrected He opened the disciples understanding of the scriptures, and that's when I believed they fully understood what salvation would require starting on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Ghost was first poured out and Peter could explain what people had to do in Acts 2:38.

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures

[Michael The Disciple]

Dan said:

We are not judged or accepted by God because of our performance. Period! We are accepted because of the righteousness of Christ credited to us by faith. This is our source of joy and assurance. GOD has saved me. HE has done it for His glory. I am his child and no one can take that from me.

This seems far removed from this:

[1] And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
[2] Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
[3] Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
[4] Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
[5] He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev. 3:1-5

Here Yeshua teaches us if our works are not perfect he will blot our names out of his book. What we do matters.