There is a minor majority, or a major minority that believes once you let go of the standards, you let go of the doctrine.!! Renda let go of the standards and lives by godly principles, yet to the mm she is considered as one that does not believe the doctrine.
Not very clear, I know.. I have major issue conveying my thoughts to the keyboard.
There is a minor majority, or a major minority that believes once you let go of the standards, you let go of the doctrine.!! Renda let go of the standards and lives by godly principles, yet to the mm she is considered as one that does not believe the doctrine.
Not very clear, I know.. I have major issue conveying my thoughts to the keyboard.
I have to agree with you. I have heard it preached many times that if you let go of standards, you will eventually let go of the doctrine.
Pretty soon you'll 6-7 years praying against abortioni doctors and homsexuality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
* I would like to thank Berkeley and H.O. for bringing to my attention some of the information I found for this thread.
Ruth Reider, now Ruth Harvey, is a reknowned Holiness writer. She has written various books on the power/value of dress standards and God's Holiness, that can be found at her website - http://positivepowerofholiness.com
In her kids section, she has introduced a series of books entitled Kingdom Kids in which her site says boys and girls will learn about God's Holiness.
Having not read the books and, only making some basic assumptions about there content, I have provided information from her site and some questions I have formulated based on the synopsis and pictures of each book.
Each story, interestingly, features one or two girls, called Angel and/or Miriam as protagonists. {Why aren't boys featured as main characters also? Is God's Holiness primarily a female problem?}
5 out of the 6 books seemingly deal with outer standards. Only one, the last one, deals with moral purity. {Doesn't Holiness start inward? Does it appear the Mrs. Harvey is focusing primarily on the outward?}
Here are the books in the series.
___________
ANGELS WATCHING OVER ME - Kingdom KidsSeries Book #1; For ages 5-9 years old
Do you have "Angels Watching Over You"?
Another morning of getting ready for school becomes very exciting as Miriam learns many wonderful things about being a King's Kid. She discovers how the armor of God and her uncut hair protects her every day. Find out how special every boy and girl is when they are one of God's kids.
{How does her uncut hair really give her the power of protection? Can this be substantiated by the Word?}
_______________________________
KINGDOM CLOTHING - Kingdom Kids Series Book #2; For ages 5-9 years old
Do you wear "Kingdom Clothing"? As the summer vacation comes to end, Angel goes shopping for school clothes. She learns all about Kingdom Clothing and how God's Kids should dress. Find out how special every boy and girl is when they are Kingdom Kids.
{What specific articles of clothing give witness of Kingdom Clothing?}
___________________________
MARBLE PALACES OR PAINTED BARNS - Kingdom Kids Series Book #3; For ages 5-9 years old
Are you a marble palace or a painted barn? It's Miriam's birthday and she is having a party. In the middle of the celebration she receives a very unusual present. Miriam learns how God made her perfect in every way. Find out how every Kingdom Kid is God's special masterpiece.
{Why is receiving a makeup kit unusual? Does putting on any type of makeup, including blush, make you a painted barn and not a marble palace for God to dwell in?}
__________________________________
GOD'S JEWELS - Kingdom Kids Series Book #4; For ages 5-9 years old
Are you one of God's Jewels? One afternoon the mailman brought Angel a package from California. After opening the surprise gift, she learns all about reflecting God's glory. Find out how every Kingdom Kid is one of God's Jewels!
{Who keeps on giving these young ladies such unholy presents? Does she cease being God's jewel when she eventually wears her wedding ring? Who created jewels and precious metals then?}
__________________________________
Adorned For the King - Kingdom Kids Series Book #5; For ages 5-9 years old
Are you Adorned for the King?
It’s summertime so Angel and Miriam are packing for Youth Camp. Together they learn what kind of clothes to wear so they can bring glory to God. Find out how Kingdom Kids can be Adorned for the King!
{What special clothing and adornment should a child of God take to Youth Camp that will bring Him glory?}
________________________________________
The Enclosed Garden (A Book on Moral Purity) - Kingdom Kids Series Book #6; For ages 5-9 years old
Are you like an enclosed garden?
It is time to have a special talk with Angel and Miriam about the divine plan for our lives. Together they learn about God’s standard of moral purity for boys and girls. Find out how Kingdom Kids can guard their enclosed gardens and remain pure!
{Why is the last book on moral purity? Are we to assume that moral purity is only about "sex"?}
I think it's perfectly fine to teach your children biblical principles and "train them up in the way they should go", as Rhoni pointed out.
I do think that anyone who has a problem with a 4-year-old's belly button has serious issues.
Children learn to live modestly and righteously more by example than explanation, and the explanations and reasons that RR gives in her books just aren't very good.
Look, there is nothing wrong or scary about teaching your children to be morally pure or to dress modestly or to live righteously in this world. That is a good thing. I don't think, necessarily, that because RR is wrong about one thing that she is wrong about all things.
We should be careful not to knee-jerk and take things based on their actual value, and not simply because the author has a penchant for extra-biblical dramatics and hysterics. The basic teachings here are no surprise...Apostolics have been telling their kids for years to not wear makeup, not cut their hair and not dress like other kids do. Where's the surprise in that?
As for being about girls...I think that's based loosely on her daughters, although I'm not certain. Of course, it's also worth pointing out that not cutting your hair, wearing only dresses/skirts, and not wearing any makeup are purely feminine issues, so why would she have written those books for boys?
Here's what I think: On principle, RR is doing the right thing. She is speaking about what she believes in, and she obviously holds strong convictions that she feels are worth sharing. I have no problem with that. If you believe something is salvational and you don't share it with others, it points to a lack of caring about their souls. So she has no choice, really, but to do what she does, say what she says, and write what she writes.
Furthermore, her books have been accepted and applauded by quite a few Apostolics, and the only folks questioning her seem to be the liberal crowd, which wouldn't be a credible objection in her mind, so again, how can you blame her? Does anyone know of any conservative UPCI ministers who have called her to task? I certainly doubt they have corrected her theology. Here's the deal--they have a win-win situation. She's supporting and promoting what they've been teaching for years as law and gospel, so it doesn't matter to them whether every jot and tittle is in place, as long as she's supporting their cause. Well, that's my opinion, anyway.
As for the kids' books...I find them to be damaging for one reason and one reason only: They place too much emphasis on outward appearance.
In our home, we are constantly talking to our kids about what they say, what they do, what they watch, what they read, what they listen to, what their attitude is like, how they treat their siblings, how respectful they are to their Grandma, how they treat children at school, being honest, having daily communication with God, and a myriad of other things that go into training them up as they "should" go. Modesty, femininity, and cleanliness are also addressed, but in my opinion, they are the least of our worries. If a girl's attitude is right, and her relationship with God is intact, then wearing modest clothing will not be a problem for her. Inside first, and the outside is no issue.
I realize that I addressed the books on another thread, but despite my dislike for the books, I don't think that RR is doing anything wrong by writing them. She has the freedom to write about what she believes just as we do. I do have a problem with the fact that her books have been so widely (and, IMO, blindly) accepted by the UPCI and its ministers. (That seems to be the case)
The endorsement of her books bothers me more than their existence.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
I think it's perfectly fine to teach your children biblical principles and "train them up in the way they should go", as Rhoni pointed out.
I do think that anyone who has a problem with a 4-year-old's belly button has serious issues.
Children learn to live modestly and righteously more by example than explanation, and the explanations and reasons that RR gives in her books just aren't very good.
Look, there is nothing wrong or scary about teaching your children to be morally pure or to dress modestly or to live righteously in this world. That is a good thing. I don't think, necessarily, that because RR is wrong about one thing that she is wrong about all things.
We should be careful not to knee-jerk and take things based on their actual value, and not simply because the author has a penchant for extra-biblical dramatics and hysterics. The basic teachings here are no surprise...Apostolics have been telling their kids for years to not wear makeup, not cut their hair and not dress like other kids do. Where's the surprise in that?
As for being about girls...I think that's based loosely on her daughters, although I'm not certain. Of course, it's also worth pointing out that not cutting your hair, wearing only dresses/skirts, and not wearing any makeup are purely feminine issues, so why would she have written those books for boys?
Here's what I think: On principle, RR is doing the right thing. She is speaking about what she believes in, and she obviously holds strong convictions that she feels are worth sharing. I have no problem with that. If you believe something is salvational and you don't share it with others, it points to a lack of caring about their souls. So she has no choice, really, but to do what she does, say what she says, and write what she writes.
Furthermore, her books have been accepted and applauded by quite a few Apostolics, and the only folks questioning her seem to be the liberal crowd, which wouldn't be a credible objection in her mind, so again, how can you blame her? Does anyone know of any conservative UPCI ministers who have called her to task? I certainly doubt they have corrected her theology. Here's the deal--they have a win-win situation. She's supporting and promoting what they've been teaching for years as law and gospel, so it doesn't matter to them whether every jot and tittle is in place, as long as she's supporting their cause. Well, that's my opinion, anyway.
As for the kids' books...I find them to be damaging for one reason and one reason only: They place too much emphasis on outward appearance.
In our home, we are constantly talking to our kids about what they say, what they do, what they watch, what they read, what they listen to, what their attitude is like, how they treat their siblings, how respectful they are to their Grandma, how they treat children at school, being honest, having daily communication with God, and a myriad of other things that go into training them up as they "should" go. Modesty, femininity, and cleanliness are also addressed, but in my opinion, they are the least of our worries. If a girl's attitude is right, and her relationship with God is intact, then wearing modest clothing will not be a problem for her. Inside first, and the outside is no issue.
I realize that I addressed the books on another thread, but despite my dislike for the books, I don't think that RR is doing anything wrong by writing them. She has the freedom to write about what she believes just as we do. I do have a problem with the fact that her books have been so widely (and, IMO, blindly) accepted by the UPCI and its ministers. (That seems to be the case)
The endorsement of her books bothers me more than their existence.
I think it's perfectly fine to teach your children biblical principles and "train them up in the way they should go", as Rhoni pointed out.
I do think that anyone who has a problem with a 4-year-old's belly button has serious issues.
Children learn to live modestly and righteously more by example than explanation, and the explanations and reasons that RR gives in her books just aren't very good.
Look, there is nothing wrong or scary about teaching your children to be morally pure or to dress modestly or to live righteously in this world. That is a good thing. I don't think, necessarily, that because RR is wrong about one thing that she is wrong about all things.
We should be careful not to knee-jerk and take things based on their actual value, and not simply because the author has a penchant for extra-biblical dramatics and hysterics. The basic teachings here are no surprise...Apostolics have been telling their kids for years to not wear makeup, not cut their hair and not dress like other kids do. Where's the surprise in that?
As for being about girls...I think that's based loosely on her daughters, although I'm not certain. Of course, it's also worth pointing out that not cutting your hair, wearing only dresses/skirts, and not wearing any makeup are purely feminine issues, so why would she have written those books for boys?
Here's what I think: On principle, RR is doing the right thing. She is speaking about what she believes in, and she obviously holds strong convictions that she feels are worth sharing. I have no problem with that. If you believe something is salvational and you don't share it with others, it points to a lack of caring about their souls. So she has no choice, really, but to do what she does, say what she says, and write what she writes.
Furthermore, her books have been accepted and applauded by quite a few Apostolics, and the only folks questioning her seem to be the liberal crowd, which wouldn't be a credible objection in her mind, so again, how can you blame her? Does anyone know of any conservative UPCI ministers who have called her to task? I certainly doubt they have corrected her theology. Here's the deal--they have a win-win situation. She's supporting and promoting what they've been teaching for years as law and gospel, so it doesn't matter to them whether every jot and tittle is in place, as long as she's supporting their cause. Well, that's my opinion, anyway.
As for the kids' books...I find them to be damaging for one reason and one reason only: They place too much emphasis on outward appearance.
In our home, we are constantly talking to our kids about what they say, what they do, what they watch, what they read, what they listen to, what their attitude is like, how they treat their siblings, how respectful they are to their Grandma, how they treat children at school, being honest, having daily communication with God, and a myriad of other things that go into training them up as they "should" go. Modesty, femininity, and cleanliness are also addressed, but in my opinion, they are the least of our worries. If a girl's attitude is right, and her relationship with God is intact, then wearing modest clothing will not be a problem for her. Inside first, and the outside is no issue.
I realize that I addressed the books on another thread, but despite my dislike for the books, I don't think that RR is doing anything wrong by writing them. She has the freedom to write about what she believes just as we do. I do have a problem with the fact that her books have been so widely (and, IMO, blindly) accepted by the UPCI and its ministers. (That seems to be the case)
The endorsement of her books bothers me more than their existence.
On this forum, made of all flavors of Apostolics, is seems most, including many ultra-cons, have a problem with RR's books and ways of thinking that aren't Biblical.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
As for the kids' books...I find them to be damaging for one reason and one reason only: They place too much emphasis on outward appearance.
I find it disturbing that 4 year old girls have to consider if their clothing is a door or wall. It seems to sexualize what isn't and should not be an issue for most children.
I think it much better for a mother just to tell her young daughter that we don't dress like that at our house rather than making them resposible for other people's problems. This also avoids a condemning attitude towards others who don't dress the same which is especially unnecesary for a young girls to learn before they have the ability to make finer distinctions.
One of your best posts.
Hybrid Mode
