Ministries for women porn addicts

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by allstate1

A sex addict is one who is addicted to sex with another!!!! A porn addict and a *** addict cause no physical harm or even involve another person in thier addictive act!

Seems to me, either way they are addicted to dopamine.

Pedophiles aren't addited to little kids. They are addicted to the sick high they get from what they do. That "high" comes from dopamine. They got their brain so screwy that they think they can only get their personal gratification by abusnig someone else. So all sex addicts are addicted to the dopamine they get from their personal gratification.

BTW, by default porn addicts are the reason why there is so much porn and thus the reason why so many people have degraded themselves into being porn stars or became unwilling partipants

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Seems to me, either way they are addicted to dopamine.

Pedophiles aren't addited to little kids. They are addicted to the sick high they get from what they do. That "high" comes from dopamine. They got their brain so screwy that they think they can only get their personal gratification by abusnig someone else. So all sex addicts are addicted to the dopamine they get from their personal gratification.

BTW, by default porn addicts are the reason why there is so much porn and thus the reason why so many people have degraded themselves into being porn stars or became unwilling partipants

Do you mean endorphins?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Do you mean endorphins?

yeah, actually both but the addiction is probably to endorphins

[Truthseeker]

I said HUH because porn addict is sex addiction. I doubt theirs a pron addict that's not a sex addict.

[allstate1]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I said HUH because porn addict is sex addiction. I doubt theirs a pron addict that's not a sex addict.

You are very mislead!!! A sex addict is addicted to fulfilling thier addiction with partners!!! I have had people who want a new partner evry day!!! Most of the porn addicts are also schizoes!!!

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by allstate1

You are very mislead!!! A sex addict is addicted to fulfilling thier addiction with partners!!! I have had people who want a new partner evry day!!! Most of the porn addicts or also schizoes!!!

My point is it's all comes under the umbrella of sex addiction. One can be an sex addict with their mate while another with several partners. Another is a porn addict. It's all sex addiction in my book.


"Most of the porn addicts or also schizoes!!!" did you mean are instead of or??

[allstate1]

yes! are!!! And they can all be classified as some sort of sex addiction!! However for rehabitation you have to be very specific!!!

[Aquila]

Bro. Dave, you have some great points. I’ll share my thoughts.

Originally Posted by DaveC519

LOL Hmmm... how old are you, young man? If your pic is recent, you look about the age of one of my sons. And you've been married for how long? And you've counseled with married couples for how long?

I’m 34 and I was married 12 years. We attended an ultra-conservative church for 10 years that completely devastated us. We should have left earlier but didn’t out of a sense of loyalty to the elder and a terrorizing fear of being considered “rebellious” or “backslidden”. It’s a long and painful story. I would have never made it had I not had Jesus carrying me through.

I've been married for 27 years. And having spent the last several years in pastoral ministry counseling married couples, would you be interested in knowing what I've gleaned as the #1 problem facing marriage? That would be "individual needs" being asserted over "couple needs". It always boils down to that- always.

I don’t disagree, but I do see it a bit differently. Yes, the #1 problem facing marriage today is “individual needs” being asserted over “couples needs”. But why is this? Why does one partner suddenly begin asserting their needs over “couples needs”? I believe that when an individual’s needs (spiritual, emotional, physical) aren’t being met they can only go on so long before something breaks. Sadly, too many couples discover the unmet needs after they’ve festered and evolved into terrible conditions and/or circumstances. I don’t believe that in marriage we suddenly deny our individuality and become clones of one another. I also don’t believe that our individual needs suddenly become sinful and all must be sacrificed for the couple’s needs. In fact, I believe that there must be a balance. Neither one’s individual needs nor the needs of the couple should be neglected at the expense of the other. To neglect individual needs for the needs of the couple or to neglect the couple’s needs for the needs of the individual is a recipe for disaster.

When I was in the Army I was a Medic. I remember one of my first assignments with an Armored Cavalry unit. The tankers and scouts were hard at work out in the field sweating their guts out training. It was my ambulance’s job to supervise the training and responds to any medical emergency. While supervising training we sat in one of the ambulances. This ambulance had a radio, air-conditioning, plenty of water, plenty of food, litters to rest on if we became tired, a couple decks of cards, etc. Yes, we had a quite a few luxuries. I’d monitor those training and I felt kind of guilty. I turned to my sergeant and said, “I feel a little guilty sitting here in the air-conditioning while those soldiers are sweating their guts out.” The sergeant looked at me and said, “Specialist, let’s say you’re one of those guys and you get seriously hurt in training. Do you want a fresh, crisp, cool, calm, and collected medic responding to you….or do you want a tired and sweaty medic responding to you? By taking care of yourself…you’re taking care of them.”

I see where elements of this rings true for marriage. Individuals can’t always neglect their individual needs for the sake of the couple’s needs. I believe this applies to more than physical needs; it can be expanded into one’s spiritual and emotional needs too. Sometimes the individual needs of a person are neglected to the point that they start to spiritually, emotionally, or even physically hurt. It is at this point that they are weak and susceptible to temptations to sin. Take a spouse whose individual emotional needs have been neglected. They meet someone at work who seems to care. They will be more susceptible to falling into an emotional affair, or even a physical affair because their personal emotional needs were neglected. Neglect someone’s spiritual needs and watch as they become spiritually lethargic and backslide.

Yes, the unit (the coupling) has needs. But the coupling is comprised of individuals. I’ve seen couples wherein individual needs are denied. All too often it’s not at the expense of the “couple’s needs”, but meeting the entirety of the dominant parties personal needs. We’ve seen this in marriages where mom stayed married to dad through thick and then, abuse and betrayal…and though she’s miserable, strung out on anti-depressants, and life is void of any joy she remains by his side. Almost like a trapped animal. Meanwhile he’s still yelling at her to fetch him another beer while he eats cheese puffs in front of the television. If the individual’s needs are not met…the couple’s needs are not met. It’s like riding a bicycle with one or both tires flat. Imagine a car if you will, it has four tiers. Can you deny the needs of each individual tire and only work on the needs of the engine? No. You need to tend to BOTH the engine and the needs of the individual tires. You need to tend to both their needs as a couple and their needs as individuals.

There's a reason Scripture says that "two become one". Once two individuals become married, the two should grow together, not separately. Yes, individuals in marriage change over time, but the two should change together, and with the same focus in mind. This is especially true in Christian marriage. Marriage is a ministry. "How may I best serve my partner?", not "how can s/he best meet MY needs?", and if the needs aren't met to my satisfaction, then I have the RIGHT to see that they're met some other way, including meeting them myself.

That’s too simplistic to me. I agree as far as couples needing to grow together. But what often causes them to grow apart is neglect. When a spouse neglects their partner’s needs that partner will naturally grow towards where those needs can be met. That’s a given. We can argue if it’s right or if it’s wrong…but my point is that it will happen. You said that marriage is a ministry wherein we need to ask “How may I best serve my partner?” While I get your sentiment, I think the wording here illustrates an underlying issue. A spouse shouldn’t have to guess what their partner’s needs are. Both should be in such intimate communication that they voice their needs to one another openly, and each accepts the other unconditionally and seeks to meet the needs revealed. So where you present platitudes, I present a conversation. Both need to ask, “What are your needs and how can I meet them?” And both need to answer, “These are my needs and here’s how you can meet them.” Guessing games rarely work.

I think the unstated premise in your statements above is that individuals in a marriage have a right to sexual gratification. I don't believe Scripture teaches this. It does, however, outline some very specific parameters wherein sexual desire can be addressed, and that is within the marriage bond. Again, the focus is on the word marriage, which is a mutually shared experience.

I don’t separate one’s physical needs in this area from the person. I don’t see these needs or impulses as something to be denied, something filthy, or something unholy that needs to be reined in with marriage providing the only pressure release valve. I see this as one aspect of our nature. It is governed largely by hormones. For example, young adults seem to have a very hard time controlling these urges. A pastor in his 50’s or 60’s will demand they have more “willpower”. If he can overcome these urges…certainly they can. Right? PRAY PRAY PRAY. FAST FAST FAST. Ahhh…but the hormone levels are crazy in these young adults. The 60 year old pastor’s body isn’t going through anything like what they are. Where he thinks he’s achieved some sort of victory, the truth is, his body isn’t putting up much of a fight compared to the 22 year old college kid’s. Interestingly enough, I’ve talked with many elders who are two and three times my age. Many have the strict opinion you present here. But when I probed…they felt differently when they were younger. When they faced the raging hormones, changes, interest in girls (or boys if it’s a young lady), and had romance burning alive before them…they were no different than anyone else. They had the same behaviors. They weren’t so “spiritual”. Lol Many regularly took care of their own needs in their younger years. Now they don’t have such a strong urge too. Biology is taking a different course for them now. And so they think differently about it. They see the world through the lenses of their here and now. But if you could make them younger again, even with what they know now, they’d be no different. These human needs and behaviors are universal.

I see this aspect of our nature as part of a greater whole. I don’t know if you’ve read much about Dr. James Dobson’s position on this. But Dr. Dobson’s position and my position are nearly the same.

TO BE CONTINUED...

[DaveC519]

Hello Aquila,

Thank you for your response.

I'm sorry to hear of your negative church experience. I hope you have found a church which meets your needs.

I don’t disagree, but I do see it a bit differently. Yes, the #1 problem facing marriage today is “individual needs” being asserted over “couples needs”. But why is this? Why does one partner suddenly begin asserting their needs over “couples needs”? I believe that when an individual’s needs (spiritual, emotional, physical) aren’t being met they can only go on so long before something breaks. Sadly, too many couples discover the unmet needs after they’ve festered and evolved into terrible conditions and/or circumstances. I don’t believe that in marriage we suddenly deny our individuality and become clones of one another. I also don’t believe that our individual needs suddenly become sinful and all must be sacrificed for the couple’s needs. In fact, I believe that there must be a balance. Neither one’s individual needs nor the needs of the couple should be neglected at the expense of the other. To neglect individual needs for the needs of the couple or to neglect the couple’s needs for the needs of the individual is a recipe for disaster.

I agree that couples are comprised of individuals, and individuals have individual needs. You'll notice, though, that my original point was that the #1 problem facing marriage today is that of individual needs being asserted OVER couple needs. Perhaps I should elaborate. When one of the marriage partners asserts their need at the expense and/or detriment of the other, then this is damaging. I'll bring this point out in response to your other comments below. So while I agree it is both okay and healthy for a partner to meet their own needs (caveat: depending on what the need is), I don't agree it should be at the expense of their partner. I believe that, in the long run, sexual self-gratification is one such example of a partner meeting their own "need" at the expense of the other.

When I was in the Army I was a Medic. I remember one of my first assignments with an Armored Cavalry unit. The tankers and scouts were hard at work out in the field sweating their guts out training. It was my ambulance’s job to supervise the training and responds to any medical emergency. While supervising training we sat in one of the ambulances. This ambulance had a radio, air-conditioning, plenty of water, plenty of food, litters to rest on if we became tired, a couple decks of cards, etc. Yes, we had a quite a few luxuries. I’d monitor those training and I felt kind of guilty. I turned to my sergeant and said, “I feel a little guilty sitting here in the air-conditioning while those soldiers are sweating their guts out.” The sergeant looked at me and said, “Specialist, let’s say you’re one of those guys and you get seriously hurt in training. Do you want a fresh, crisp, cool, calm, and collected medic responding to you….or do you want a tired and sweaty medic responding to you? By taking care of yourself…you’re taking care of them.”

While I think this is a good analogy you've provided, I disagree that this can be applied to sexual self-gratification in the marriage for reasons I've previously stated.

I see where elements of this rings true for marriage. Individuals can’t always neglect their individual needs for the sake of the couple’s needs. I believe this applies to more than physical needs; it can be expanded into one’s spiritual and emotional needs too. Sometimes the individual needs of a person are neglected to the point that they start to spiritually, emotionally, or even physically hurt. It is at this point that they are weak and susceptible to temptations to sin. Take a spouse whose individual emotional needs have been neglected. They meet someone at work who seems to care. They will be more susceptible to falling into an emotional affair, or even a physical affair because their personal emotional needs were neglected. Neglect someone’s spiritual needs and watch as they become spiritually lethargic and backslide.

I would say this is a good example of one partner asserting their needs to the neglect of the other. We must ask why the spouse above did not have their emotional needs met, which have now led them to engage in this particular behavior. I would venture to say it was due to their partner's pattern of behavior which asserted their individual needs above, and to the neglect of, the needs of the spouse. This again points back to my original assertion.

Yes, the unit (the coupling) has needs. But the coupling is comprised of individuals. I’ve seen couples wherein individual needs are denied. All too often it’s not at the expense of the “couple’s needs”, but meeting the entirety of the dominant parties personal needs. We’ve seen this in marriages where mom stayed married to dad through thick and then, abuse and betrayal…and though she’s miserable, strung out on anti-depressants, and life is void of any joy she remains by his side. Almost like a trapped animal. Meanwhile he’s still yelling at her to fetch him another beer while he eats cheese puffs in front of the television. If the individual’s needs are not met…the couple’s needs are not met. It’s like riding a bicycle with one or both tires flat. Imagine a car if you will, it has four tiers. Can you deny the needs of each individual tire and only work on the needs of the engine? No. You need to tend to BOTH the engine and the needs of the individual tires. You need to tend to both their needs as a couple and their needs as individuals.

See above.

That’s too simplistic to me. I agree as far as couples needing to grow together. But what often causes them to grow apart is neglect. When a spouse neglects their partner’s needs that partner will naturally grow towards where those needs can be met. That’s a given. We can argue if it’s right or if it’s wrong…but my point is that it will happen.

You continue to prove my original assertion, though. I agree that couples grow apart due to neglect. Again, the neglect is one partner asserting their needs over and above the needs of the couple. The needs of the couple are that EACH partner's needs are met, not just one.

You said that marriage is a ministry wherein we need to ask “How may I best serve my partner?” While I get your sentiment, I think the wording here illustrates an underlying issue. A spouse shouldn’t have to guess what their partner’s needs are. Both should be in such intimate communication that they voice their needs to one another openly, and each accepts the other unconditionally and seeks to meet the needs revealed. So where you present platitudes, I present a conversation. Both need to ask, “What are your needs and how can I meet them?” And both need to answer, “These are my needs and here’s how you can meet them.” Guessing games rarely work.

I agree with you that good communication is the key, and that one partner shouldn't have to guess the needs of the other. That's why I stressed that both need to ask, "How may I best serve my partner?" When this is asked, the other can and should express their needs.

I don’t separate one’s physical needs in this area from the person. I don’t see these needs or impulses as something to be denied, something filthy, or something unholy that needs to be reined in with marriage providing the only pressure release valve.

I disagree, and I believe Scripture does, as well. Yes, humans have the capacity for sexual desire. Scripture gives us but one option to fulfill this desire: marriage. It does not condone us fulfilling these desires via fornication, adultery, prostitution, homosexuality, beastiality, or self-gratification. Why? Because all of these are selfish expressions. Marriage is the one avenue allowed because it is (or should be) true ministry one to the other.

CONTINUED....

[DaveC519]

I see this as one aspect of our nature. It is governed largely by hormones. For example, young adults seem to have a very hard time controlling these urges. A pastor in his 50’s or 60’s will demand they have more “willpower”. If he can overcome these urges…certainly they can. Right? PRAY PRAY PRAY. FAST FAST FAST. Ahhh…but the hormone levels are crazy in these young adults. The 60 year old pastor’s body isn’t going through anything like what they are. Where he thinks he’s achieved some sort of victory, the truth is, his body isn’t putting up much of a fight compared to the 22 year old college kid’s. Interestingly enough, I’ve talked with many elders who are two and three times my age. Many have the strict opinion you present here. But when I probed…they felt differently when they were younger. When they faced the raging hormones, changes, interest in girls (or boys if it’s a young lady), and had romance burning alive before them…they were no different than anyone else. They had the same behaviors. They weren’t so “spiritual”. Lol Many regularly took care of their own needs in their younger years. Now they don’t have such a strong urge too. Biology is taking a different course for them now. And so they think differently about it. They see the world through the lenses of their here and now. But if you could make them younger again, even with what they know now, they’d be no different. These human needs and behaviors are universal.

Your position places biology above biblical commandment. God fully recognizes that younger people have stronger biological urges than older. But his commandments are for all, not simply the old. When Paul said that God provides a way of escape for those tempted, that is not simply a promise for the old, but for all. While I agree that "these human needs" are universal, the behavior is not condoned by God.

I see this aspect of our nature as part of a greater whole. I don’t know if you’ve read much about Dr. James Dobson’s position on this. But Dr. Dobson’s position and my position are nearly the same.

Yes, I'm familiar with Dr. Dobson's position on this, and I think he's mistaken. Basically, he has stated that he sees nothing wrong with pre-married adolescent males engaging in "self gratification", but that it would be wrong for them to continue this behavior after marriage. Here's why I disagree with his first assertion:
1)- Dr. Dobson acknowledges that human males are aroused via visual stimulation (looking at women, etc.)

2)- Unmarried males have no partner which they can fantasize about during self-gratification, therefore, they are prone to fantasize about women to whom they are not married.

3)- Since Jesus said that if a man (including young males) looks on (which includes fantasizing) a woman to lust after her, he has already committed adultery. This would extend to unmarried men fantasizing over unmarried women, which would be fornication- and still sin.

4)- Once a behavior such as self gratification is established in a young male, it does have a high probability of being continued into adulthood and into the marriage relationship.

5)- Married adult males who previously fantasized about women during self-gratification before marriage have a high probability of continuing this behavior once married. This is adultery.

So, what is the answer for young males (or females) who have "overwhelming" urges they can't contain? As you so adeptly suggested: PRAY PRAY PRAY FAST FAST FAST. This is not just for young people, but individuals of all ages. Since when are we, as a temple of the Holy Ghost, permitted to be ruled by our carnal nature? You keep suggesting that since these type of urges are "natural", that somehow it's okay to fulfill them. That's simply not Bible. Paul said he died daily! He said he brought under his body, and kept it under subjection. We are not to be ruled by our passions and lusts. That's called carnality! I don't care what age someone might be. If they've received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, then God gives them power over the flesh. If they do not practice this, then they are living in carnality.

I was filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost at the age of 16. I did not engage in carnal behavior because I PRAYED AND FASTED. When my wife and I got married, both our virginity was in tact. That sort of thing is possible because the Holy Ghost makes it possible. "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh."