Are You Sure You Don't Want To Be Left Behind?

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Sis Falla 39

I'm disappointed. You've changed your posting style! I've become

accustomed to the old way you posted. You said it was easier for you to

read. Then, I think you should post the way it is easiest for you. We who

value your words of wisdom would read it outside down if necessary. Just

thought you's enjoy hearing from another "complainer". Hee Hee Hee

You can please some of the people sone of the time,

but you can't please all the people all of the time!

Bro. One Accord,

I thought I would at least be willing to try and see if I got some

feedback and sure enough I did! LOL!! Back in the early 70's I worked

for a short time in the real estate field. Our broker wanted us to take

this "test" from someone she knew, and it would tell what type persona-

ality we had. One part of my results said that I would tend to be a bit

domineering, but I had a tender streak that balanced it!! LOL!!! My hus-

band and I always got a laugh from that. So don't be too disappointed

as I suppose it just my "tender" streak showing!! Sometimes when we

would perhaps be "hard" or "unbroken" God knows how to put a "tender"

streak (scars make tender places) to make us obedient. Jesus had them.

In His Hands (that's where our names are engraven). But He was wounded

for our transgressions. He was bruised for our iniquities. the chastisement

of our peace was upon Him, and with His stripes we are (were) healed.

He bore our griefs and carried our sorrows.

Why did I say all that!

Blessings,

Falla39

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Sis Falla 39

I'm disappointed. You've changed your posting style! I've become

accustomed to the old way you posted. You said it was easier for you to

read. Then, I think you should post the way it is easiest for you. We who

value your words of wisdom would read it outside down if necessary. Just

thought you's enjoy hearing from another "complainer". Hee Hee Hee

You can please some of the people sone of the time,

but you can't please all the people all of the time!

Bro. OneAccord,

Incidentally I see YOU are double-spacing! Looks good too!!

Just goes to show we can change if we try!!!! LOL!!!

Blessings,

Falla39

[mfblume]

Just for curiosity's sake, sister, do you hit the enter key at the end of the line like the old typewriters, rather than let the computer automatically do that?

I am not saying to change it, but just curious.

Thanks and God bless!

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Just for curiosity's sake, sister, do you hit the enter key at the end of the line like the old typewriters, rather than let the computer automatically do that?

I am not saying to change it, but just curious.

Thanks and God bless!

Bro. Blume,

I had to check it out to see if that's what I was doing. I was doing it

so automatically I didn't even realize it.

I have gone back and noticed that my posts are not the only ones

that are doubled spaced. Might be some have liked that style. Anyway,

Blessings,

Falla39

[DAII]

Great thread.

[berkeley]

yes, three years later, still a great thread.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Raven

Millions in merchandising have been made by the creators of the "Left Behind" series. If you grew up in Pentecost, as I have, you can remember revivals, youth camps, and conferences, where altars were full of crying young people and the smell of brimstone was almost real. Perhaps an evangelist had screamed into a mike that the trumpet was about to sound and many were going to be left behind. Or you walked into an unexpectedly quiet house after school and panicked when Mom couldn't be found. Left behind! You missed the Rapture! You lived in fear of being left behind.
Perhaps it is time to take a new look at some old things. I'm not here to discuss Rapture, Pre- Mid- or Post, but to examin the scripture that was used to propagate the "left behind" doctrine. Are you sure you don't want to be left behind?
Matthew 24:37-41
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

It is obvious, with some examination, that the ones "taken" are taken in judgment and that Noah was "left" behind. Whatever one believes about the "Rapture", you certainly, from this scripture, want to be left behind!
Raven

I disagree.

Here is why. The immediate context could look as though Jesus is comparing the flood victims with those that are taken, but the grammar is quite different.

Mat 24:39 And they knew nothing until the flood came and took them all away. It will be the same at the coming of the Son of Man.

airō
A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away; figuratively to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specifically to sail away (that is, weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare [H5375]) to expiate sin: - away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

Now compare that to the other verse.
Mat 24:40 Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one left.

Here is the word for taken
paralambanō
to receive near, that is, associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy to assume an office; figuratively to learn: - receive, take (unto, with).

That doesn't sound like judgment

Now here is the larger context.
Mat 24:30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus was explaining in the later verses about the "gathering" to Himself of His elect

[Apocrypha]

Originally Posted by crakjak

I have studied this very same thought (last year) and came to the same conclusion, it is amazing how our heritage blinds us to the very clear teaching of scripture. If we can take our cultural glasses off, scripture has "many wonderful things to show us, that we know not of". Great post, Raven.

I am still chewing on this myself. Will research later... interesting how I didnt see it before.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by crakjak

I have studied this very same thought (last year) and came to the same conclusion, it is amazing how our heritage blinds us to the very clear teaching of scripture. If we can take our cultural glasses off, scripture has "many wonderful things to show us, that we know not of". Great post, Raven.

It has nothing to do with heritage, it's context and grammar...back to hermeneutics

[DAII]

I disagree.

Here is why. The immediate context could look as though Jesus is comparing the flood victims with those that are taken, but the grammar is quite different.

Mat 24:39 And they knew nothing until the flood came and took them all away. It will be the same at the coming of the Son of Man.

airō
A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away; figuratively to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specifically to sail away (that is, weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare [H5375]) to expiate sin: - away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

Now compare that to the other verse.
Mat 24:40 Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one left.

Here is the word for taken
paralambanō
to receive near, that is, associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); by analogy to assume an office; figuratively to learn: - receive, take (unto, with).

That doesn't sound like judgment

Not sure the usage (not grammar) of multiple words somehow doesn't still convey judgment. Why not find other scripture to help unlock this one, Praxeas ... this has the classic makings of a WORD STUDY FALLACY ... http://www.studydesk.org/Hermeneutic...0Fallacies.htm

In Luke 17, where there are parallel statements made by Christ, about people being "taken" ... using airo and lambano again ... Still, it most definitely indicates a moment and taking in judgment ...

he is asked point blank: Where Lord?

26"(AA)And just as it happened (AB)in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:

27they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

28"It was the same as happened in (AC)the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building;

29but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

30"It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man (AD)is revealed.

31"On that day, the one who is (AE)on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.

32"(AF)Remember Lot's wife.

33"(AG)Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

34"I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.

35"(AH)There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.

36["[b](AI)Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."]

37And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "(AJ)Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered.

Some translations use the word "carcass" for body in verse 37. Doesn't sound like heaven ... and why continually make comparisons to the other judgments other than Noah ... like Lot's wife ... and Sodom and Gomorrah???

Would still seem with these example being left means a good thing with "Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it" in purview.

You also stated:

Now here is the larger context. Mat 24:30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus was explaining in the later verses about the "gathering" to Himself of His elect

It would appear the elect are gathered to see him mete out judgment ... which happens subsequently.

The alternative is to force an interpretation ...

Context here is most definitely meting of judgment ... not "the rapture". Adding biblical witness to the Matthew 24 account ... and credence to Raven's interpretation.