DKB's Impassioned Plea For Iranian Branhamite?

[Arshak]

Originally Posted by Bullwinkle

So, I guess my question is - does the "church of Iran" believe that some humans are the descendents of the serpent's seed?

Would this be a widespread position among the Church of Iran?

These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.



It is the common position of the Church. To be clear: there is not human descendants of the Serpent's seed. But we believe that Cain has spiritual descendants: John 8.44

[Arshak]

Originally Posted by DAII

Arshak, your confusion as to Trinitarian men like John Calvin, Walter Martin, Adam Clarke ... is that they seemingly reject various aspects the doctrine of the eternal generation of the Son as in the Nicene creed "God from God" but do not reject the Eternal Sonship and/or the Eternal Logos.

This article is helpful in seeing the distinctions made by many Trinitarian theologians, some who accept eternal generation ... and some who find problems with how it is expressed in early creeds .... this does not make them "timid Oneness" ... this deals mainly with sub-ordinationism:

http://articulifidei.blogspot.com/20...on-of-son.html

What this proves is there is no uniform consensus ... among Trinitarians as there is not among Oneness ....

This a quote from Adam Clarke:

" Here, I trust, I may be permitted to say, with all due respect for those who differ from me, that the doctrine of the eternal Sonship of Christ is, in my opinion, anti-scriptural, and highly dangerous. This doctrine I reject for the following reasons:..—..

1st. I have not been able to find any express declaration in the Scriptures concerning it.

2dly. If Christ be the Son of God as to his Divine nature, then he cannot be eternal; for son implies a father; and father implies, in reference to son, precedency in time, if not in nature too. Father and son imply the idea of generation; and generation implies a time in which it was effected, and time also antecedent to such generation.

3dly. If Christ be the Son of God, as to his Divine nature, then the Father is of necessity prior, consequently superior to him.

4thly. Again, if this Divine nature were begotten of the Father, then it must be in time; i.e. there was a period in which it did not exist, and a period when it began to exist. This destroys the eternity of our blessed Lord, and robs him at once of his Godhead.

5thly. To say that he was begotten from all eternity, is, in my opinion, absurd; and the phrase eternal Son is a positive self-contradiction. ETERNITY is that which has had no beginning, nor stands in any reference to TIME. SON supposes time, generation, and father; and time also antecedent to such generation. Therefore the conjunction of these two terms, Son and eternity is absolutely impossible, as they imply essentially different and opposite ideas.

The enemies of Christ’s Divinity have, in all ages, availed themselves of this incautious method of treating this subject, and on this ground, have ever had the advantage of the defenders of the Godhead of Christ. This doctrine of the eternal Sonship destroys the deity of Christ; now, if his deity be taken away, the whole Gospel scheme of redemption is ruined. On this ground, the atonement of Christ cannot have been of infinite merit, and consequently could not purchase pardon for the offences of mankind, nor give any right to, or possession of, an eternal glory. The very use of this phrase is both absurd and dangerous; therefore let all those who value Jesus and their salvation abide by the Scriptures. This doctrine of the eternal Sonship, as it has been lately explained in many a pamphlet, and many a paper in magazines, I must and do consider as an awful heresy, and mere sheer Arianism; which, in many cases, has terminated in Socinianism, and that in Deism. From such heterodoxies, and their abetters, may God save his Church! Amen! "

I agree with the explanation of Calvin, when he is expressing his understanding of the Trinity. Per me it is his "eppure si muove".

[Bullwinkle]

Originally Posted by Arshak

These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.



It is the common position of the Church. To be clear: there is not human descendants of the Serpent's seed. But we believe that Cain has spiritual descendants: John 8.44

Meaning that those of the seed of the serpent are predestined to be lost? In other words the "serpent seed" doctrine as taught by William Branham?

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Bullwinkle

Meaning that those of the seed of the serpent are predestined to be lost? In other words the "serpent seed" doctrine as taught by William Branham?

Ding ... ding ... ding ...
We have a winner.

[Sister Alvear]

well...what happened to the pastor from Iran?

[Bullwinkle]

Originally Posted by Bullwinkle

Meaning that those of the seed of the serpent are predestined to be lost? In other words the "serpent seed" doctrine as taught by William Branham?

Anybody got an answer to this question?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Sam

There are ties to Branhamites on AFF, aren't there?

uh, was. But he went to jail. Or is there another?

We should speak out against the cruel and unjust regime in control of Iran whether they persecute Branhamites, Zoroastrians or anyone else. I know DAII would be just as concerned no matter who was facing the hangman's noose in this runaway "Islamic Republic."

Bernard's statements are rather curious, though. "... led to more Jesus' name baptisms..." Is this intended to mean that since the "Three Step" is the 'only way to be saved,' that it is to be preferred even when performed by deluded cultists?

Bernard would have to answer for himself, but this does sound as if he believes that there really is magic in the performance of the "Three Step" ritual. Still, injustice is injustice. Youcef Nadarkhani had done NOTHING worthy of death. He hasn't even done anything worthy of the imprisonment he has suffered.

Where's Obama and Jimmy Carter's voices? Don't they care?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by DAII

Again I hope this pastor is freed ... and the verdict is still out on whether his fellowship is closely aligned with Branham .... but to jump the gun and somehow proclaim that this group is "Apostolic" simply because it appears to baptize in "Jesus name" ... or that it makes it an automatic entry into the AOP ranks is interesting, at least to me ...

So if I baptize babies in Jesus name by sprinkling, believe the Holy Ghost is received by the laying of hands and animal sacrifice ... I'm Apostolic?

This type of latitude is not even given by the org's general board when it goes after emergents who have left the Apostolic message because they wear untucked shirts with jeans and believe we are saved at repentance.

Good point. Untuck your shirt and sit down while you preach (like Jesus did) and you'll wind up in front of the District Board faster than you'd ever expect.

... belong to some fringe element (that probably doesn't even wear ties) ... BUT, represent an opportunity for a little press coverage and you'll be treated like a "brother."

[Sam]

Originally Posted by pelathais

...
Where's Obama and Jimmy Carter's voices? Don't they care?

I doubt if Obama would speak out on something like this. He wouldn't want to offend his Muslim brethren.

Jimmy Carter has lost all credibility since he spoke out in favor of the "Palestinians" and compared the Israeli government to Nazis. I don't know what happened to Jimmy Carter. He never was the sharpest knife in the drawer but I think he's completely lost his mind over the past few years.I've seen him in a couple of interviews and he seems to be completely out of touch with reality and very anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian.

[Arshak]

Originally Posted by DAII

Ding ... ding ... ding ...
We have a winner.

In the Kingdom of God there is only place for the seed of Abraham.

The word predestination exists in my Bible:"Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. "

We become children of Abraham by accepting His choice for our life.

I'm not interested about the occidental definition of the predestination.