Arnold's Proof of Apostolic Doctrine in History

[John Atkinson]

One word: REVISIONIST

When people push this stuff as facts, it just makes us look bad.

[Sister Alvear]

I wonder if there is a good book that does trace Christian roots...

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I wonder if there is a good book that does trace Christian roots...

I seriously doubt it! /sigh/

The reason being that the Roman (Western) church in its takeover of the original church did an excellent job of (1) removing anyone and everyone from the picture who disagreed with the ruling 'priests', (2) they either destroyed or confiscated (banned) all documents not approved by this same religious class, and (3) then they produced their own version of history, doctrines, and theology separate from the historical church of Christ. Even the NT canon was established by this same apostate priesthood.

This is why I encourage everyone to learn to preach and teach Jesus Christ from the OT, like Jesus, His Apostles, and early disciples did. Then, to use the NT writings in support of, and the opening up of those OT doctrines to our further understanding. If this was NOT the method intended by Jesus for us to use, then it should still be a very close approximation. See Luke 24:20-50.

[seekerman]

The problem is in trying to find a Christian sect which existed throughout history as the perfect Christian organization. That sect doesn't exist for the church isn't in some organization or sect no matter what propaganda they serve you.

Adding to the problem is the Christian practice of building buildings, calling them the Church and allowing the walls up to separate themselves from other believers. A building, some very costly, on every corner isn't anything slightly resembling what Jesus taught.

Christianity is a mess folks. It ain't pretty.

[Sister Alvear]

There has always been christians...maybe they do not fit into everybody's mold...

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

There has always been christians...maybe they do not fit into everybody's mold...

I think that is true.
God has had people all along who loved Him and served Him but they didn't fit into the mold that some of us modern OP's have designed and by which we measure and judge everyone.

[Adino]

It is telling that Rev. Arnold never defines what he means by "UPPER ROOM CHURCH of Acts, Jerusalem, AD 33" or "The Jerusalemic (Apostolic) CHURCH depicted in Acts two."

I too believe the 'upper room church of Acts' / the 'Jerusalemic (Apostolic) Church depicted in Acts two' was always alive and well with witness throughout the ages. I just do not define the doctrinal tenets of this Church as did Rev. Arnold.

Rev. Arnold viewed history through the paradigm of the doctrinal tenets of G.T. Haywood, the pastor of Marvin Arnold's own pastor. The views of Haywood greatly influenced the springboard from which Marvin Arnold biasedly dove into history.

Just sayin'....

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Adino

It is telling that Rev. Arnold never defines what he means by "UPPER ROOM CHURCH of Acts, Jerusalem, AD 33" or "The Jerusalemic (Apostolic) CHURCH depicted in Acts two."

I too believe the 'upper room church of Acts' / the 'Jerusalemic (Apostolic) Church depicted in Acts two' was always alive and well with witness throughout the ages. I just do not define the doctrinal tenets of this Church as did Rev. Arnold.

Rev. Arnold viewed history through the paradigm of the doctrinal tenets of G.T. Haywood, the pastor of Marvin Arnold's own pastor. The views of Haywood greatly influenced the springboard from which Marvin Arnold biasedly dove into history.

Just sayin'....

It is my opinion that people are placed/baptized into the Body of Christ at the moment they believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and submit to Him. In my opinion, at that moment they are justified, saved, and born again and that salvation experience is separate from water baptism and Spirit Baptism. So, I have no problem believing that God has always had a people or a Church because I believe being in God's church is independent of a water baptism ritual and an experience in which speaking with tongues may be imparted, and in the way we dress.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by seekerman

The problem is in trying to find a Christian sect which existed throughout history as the perfect Christian organization. That sect doesn't exist for the church isn't in some organization or sect no matter what propaganda they serve you.

Adding to the problem is the Christian practice of building buildings, calling them the Church and allowing the walls up to separate themselves from other believers. A building, some very costly, on every corner isn't anything slightly resembling what Jesus taught.

Christianity is a mess folks. It ain't pretty.

I agree with what you've said here, but I have come to the conclusion that Religion itself, traced back as far as you want to go, has complicated this World beyond repair. Religion has become the killing machine of Planet Earth, and the sword (or bombs) has been drawn in the name of Faith in every known civilization.

Religion has also confused the World with a billion ideas that can’t be proven, leaving nothing but a trail of speculation and dogmas that thrive in fantasy.

Relevance in Faith depends on when and where you were born, how you were raised, and the dominating culture of your particular society.

Whether we like it or not, these play out in our mental state of how we determine and believe in God, and breaking free to think on a more independent level can be very difficult. In fact, we can almost feel like we are in bondage regarding our dilemma of having no choice of how we came into this World.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Sam

It is my opinion that people are placed/baptized into the Body of Christ at the moment they believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and submit to Him. In my opinion, at that moment they are justified, saved, and born again and that salvation experience is separate from water baptism and Spirit Baptism. So, I have no problem believing that God has always had a people or a Church because I believe being in God's church is independent of a water baptism ritual and an experience in which speaking with tongues may be imparted, and in the way we dress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE5sz78r3kI

God's Church Triumphant

Let the Church be the Church, Let the People rejoice.
Oh, we’ve settled the question, We’ve made our choice.
Let the anthems ring out, Songs of victory swell
For the Church triumphant is alive and well.

Let the Church be the Church, Let the People rejoice.
Oh, we’ve settled the question, We’ve made our choice.
Let the anthems ring out, Songs of victory swell
For the Church triumphant is alive and well.

Oh, this ship’s been thru battles before
Storms and tempest and rocks on the shore.
Tho’ the hull it may be battered,
Down inside it’s safe and dry
It will carry its cargo to the port in the sky.

Let the Church be the Church, Let the People rejoice.
Oh, we’ve settled the question, We’ve made our choice.
Let the anthems ring out, Songs of victory swell
For the Church triumphant is alive and well.

God Has Always Had A People!
Many a foolish conquer made the mistake of thinking that because he had forced the Church of Jesus Christ out of sight, that he had stilled it's voice and snuffed out it's life.
But God Has Always Had A People!

The powerful current of a rushing river is not diminished because it is forced to flow underground. The purest water is the stream that bursts crystal clear into the sunlight after it has fought it's way through solid rock.

There have been charlatans who like Simon the magician, sought to barter on the open market that power which cannot be bought or sold.
But God Has Always Had A People!

Men who could not be bought and women who were beyond purchase.
Yes, God Has Always Had A People!

There have been times of affluence and prosperity when the Church's message was nearly diluted into oblivion by those who sought to make it socially attractive, neatly organized and financially profitable. It has been gold plated ,draped in purple and encrusted with jewels. It has been misrepresented, ridiculed, blotted and scorned.

These followers of Jesus Christ have been according to the whim of the times elevated as sacred leaders and martyred as heretics. Yet through it all, there marches on that powerful army of the meek, God's chosen people that can't be bought, flattered, murdered or stilled. On through the ages they march.

The Church, God's Church Triumphant, is Alive and Well!

Now listen child of God. It's alive!

Discouraged pastor it's His Church and it's alive!

Lonely Missionary, sow your seeds with confidence!

It's alive my broken hearted friend!

Old saint you’re not alone and forgotten, the Church is alive!

Busy mother cast your cares on Jesus!

It's alive young student. You're not alone in serving the Lord!

Faithful father there's rest in the Lord! The Church is alive!

Cynical skeptic you haven't killed God with your noisy unbelief.

He's Alive!

So family of God raise you hands and praise the Lord.

For the Church, God's Church Triumphant, Is Alive and Well!