Education Reformers Needed

Jeffrey · #1 12-31-2010, 12:06 PM

What's the solution here?

Quality Christian higher education is important. If we cease investing in teachers and learners, we regress and fail to move forward. Centers of incestuous academia, where students are really just converts being told what to believe doesn't fit the mold of what college is all about. The importance of students being grounded in theology that has good hindsight and inspired forward-sight is critical.

So here's the rub. Many bible students eventually become pastors. These young singles and married people leave school to serve the mission of God in a unique way, and do so with sometimes as much as $50,000 in debt (if they've obtained a Th.M, MDiv, etc).

Serving God's people is not a vocation. It's not a career. It's a unique call. It's not about "cashing in" on the degree in terms of money, but in terms of people. Colleges that are affordable have under-qualified instructors, colleges with the best-of-the-best in professors tend to be over-priced.

In fact, many major theological seminaries have a profit-seeking business office like any other school. They tax you for every dollar. The book prices are off the charts.

So what's the solution to this?

I write this post to those who already acknowledge and appreciate ministers who understand education to be a piece of the preparation that goes into it.

Thoughts? Should churches have regular giving to local schools and students submit to being worthy of that church's scholarship? Should scholarships be more readily available (they are bleak for theology students generally)? Should we just continue on as we do?

Michael The Disciple · #2 12-31-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

What's the solution here?

Quality Christian higher education is important. If we cease investing in teachers and learners, we regress and fail to move forward. Centers of incestuous academia, where students are really just converts being told what to believe doesn't fit the mold of what college is all about. The importance of students being grounded in theology that has good hindsight and inspired forward-sight is critical.

So here's the rub. Many bible students eventually become pastors. These young singles and married people leave school to serve the mission of God in a unique way, and do so with sometimes as much as $50,000 in debt (if they've obtained a Th.M, MDiv, etc).

Serving God's people is not a vocation. It's not a career. It's a unique call. It's not about "cashing in" on the degree in terms of money, but in terms of people. Colleges that are affordable have under-qualified instructors, colleges with the best-of-the-best in professors tend to be over-priced.

In fact, many major theological seminaries have a profit-seeking business office like any other school. They tax you for every dollar. The book prices are off the charts.

So what's the solution to this?

I write this post to those who already acknowledge and appreciate ministers who understand education to be a piece of the preparation that goes into it.

Thoughts? Should churches have regular giving to local schools and students submit to being worthy of that church's scholarship? Should scholarships be more readily available (they are bleak for theology students generally)? Should we just continue on as we do?

Whats wrong with the Elders of the Church teaching new converts? Why should they have to pay to get a "Christian Education"? What is the role of the Pastors and Teachers? What is the SCRIPTURAL answer to helping the new convert to grow?

It is most certainly NOT Bible to send them off to a school somewhere. The Church is a place to learn. Matter of fact it is THE place to learn. If a Pastor is not able to do this he is not a New Testament Pastor.

Jeffrey · #3 12-31-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Whats wrong with the Elders of the Church teaching new converts? Why should they have to pay to get a "Christian Education"? What is the role of the Pastors and Teachers? What is the SCRIPTURAL answer to helping the new convert to grow?

It is most certainly NOT Bible to send them off to a school somewhere. The Church is a place to learn. Matter of fact it is THE place to learn. If a Pastor is not able to do this he is not a New Testament Pastor.

You were one of the posters I thought when writing about. We've had separate threads about the importance of learning. That's not really the intent of my post.

The role of pastors and teachers is to teach. I'm not talking about new converts.

You, sir, are using the Word in a wrong way to suit your motive to think the scriptures give us rules in this area. You are an example of why "Christian education" is important!

We are talking about those who continue to train teachers -- and even scholars, theologians for generations to come.

RandyWayne · #4 12-31-2010, 03:16 PM

I do think there is a real need for true accredited Christian schools (independent of a specific church building since almost none are capable of running one) and colleges -that teach real working degrees in addition to theological ones.

Jeffrey · #5 12-31-2010, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I do think there is a real need for true accredited Christian schools (independent of a specific church building since almost none are capable of running one) and colleges -that teach real working degrees in addition to theological ones.

I'm referring specifically to theological schools that those preparing for a life of service in the ministry would attend. But what you are saying would definitely be supported at such schools.

There are several out there (private Christian universities that offer quality liberal arts degrees)... do you think they are lacking right now?

RandyWayne · #6 12-31-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I'm referring specifically to theological schools that those preparing for a life of service in the ministry would attend. But what you are saying would definitely be supported at such schools.

There are several out there (private Christian universities that offer quality liberal arts degrees)... do you think they are lacking right now?

Extremely so. Any good Christian college should offer things such as computer programming, drafting, nursing, accounting, elementary education, etc. The list goes on. In fact we need some real degrees that all these young ladies can receive who are currently going for the sole purpose of finding that soon-to-be-pastor husband.

Jeffrey · #7 12-31-2010, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Extremely so. Any good Christian college should offer things such as computer programming, drafting, nursing, accounting, elementary education, etc. The list goes on. In fact we need some real degrees that all these young ladies can receive who are currently going for the sole purpose of finding that soon-to-be-pastor husband.

Actually, many women attend seminary so they too can serve churches. But you may be referring to the UPCI bubble?

Catholic schools have are ahead of the game here. Places like Notre Dame have wonderful programs. The subjects you mentioned seem more like career/trade schools -- which are not usually 4-year degrees.

RandyWayne · #8 12-31-2010, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Actually, many women attend seminary so they too can serve churches. But you may be referring to the UPCI bubble?

Catholic schools have are ahead of the game here. Places like Notre Dame have wonderful programs. The subjects you mentioned seem more like career/trade schools -- which are not usually 4-year degrees.

I was probably referring to the UPC (and AoG) bubble. After those two I have no idea about other denominations.

Michael The Disciple · #9 12-31-2010, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

You were one of the posters I thought when writing about. We've had separate threads about the importance of learning. That's not really the intent of my post.

The role of pastors and teachers is to teach. I'm not talking about new converts.

You, sir, are using the Word in a wrong way to suit your motive to think the scriptures give us rules in this area. You are an example of why "Christian education" is important!

We are talking about those who continue to train teachers -- and even scholars, theologians for generations to come.

And who better to train the Teachers than other Teachers in the Church? Its your thread so you obviously dont have to hear what Im saying but....where is your New Testament example for such things as an accredited college?

Where did any New Testament Teacher ask for money to teach anyone the deep things of God?

Lets start right there. If I am wrong produce one example in the New Testament where someone required money to teach the things of Jesus.

Jesus said "Freely you have received freely give".

If one wants to be trained in Gods word why not use Jesus and the Apostles as our guide?

If they had special schools where men trained others for an occupation then what you are wanting is valid.

notofworks · #10 12-31-2010, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

What's the solution here?

Quality Christian higher education is important. If we cease investing in teachers and learners, we regress and fail to move forward. Centers of incestuous academia, where students are really just converts being told what to believe doesn't fit the mold of what college is all about. The importance of students being grounded in theology that has good hindsight and inspired forward-sight is critical.

So here's the rub. Many bible students eventually become pastors. These young singles and married people leave school to serve the mission of God in a unique way, and do so with sometimes as much as $50,000 in debt (if they've obtained a Th.M, MDiv, etc).

Serving God's people is not a vocation. It's not a career. It's a unique call. It's not about "cashing in" on the degree in terms of money, but in terms of people. Colleges that are affordable have under-qualified instructors, colleges with the best-of-the-best in professors tend to be over-priced.

In fact, many major theological seminaries have a profit-seeking business office like any other school. They tax you for every dollar. The book prices are off the charts.

So what's the solution to this?

I write this post to those who already acknowledge and appreciate ministers who understand education to be a piece of the preparation that goes into it.

Thoughts? Should churches have regular giving to local schools and students submit to being worthy of that church's scholarship? Should scholarships be more readily available (they are bleak for theology students generally)? Should we just continue on as we do?

When I think about some of the classes and some of the instructors when I attended bible school, it's obvious that the job isn't getting done. They were doing their best, no doubt, but it's SO far behind the "Dallas Theological Seminary" types.....well, they're not in the same galaxy.