A Crumbling UPC 'Fesses Up, AI is not working

[Aquila]

Consider the woman at the well. She was divorced five times and living with a man. Yet Jesus didn't rebuke her. Instead He showed her His glory and it was this "immoral" woman's testimony that brought the entire town where she lived to faith in Christ. I don't see any mention of her marrying right away.

God works far more slowly than we like Him too. In her weakness and brokenness, her fallen sinful condition, God had mercy, poured out His grace, and used her. Why can't we understand that the Gospel's purpose isn't a "make you a better person" scheme... but a plan to save a fallen and sinful mankind?

All of us sin. Sin is sin. God's grace is sufficient. Give God time to work on the heart as the mind is transformed by the Word.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

The UPCI is not crumbling.

Good grief!

I believe she's already fallen. We're just seeing the decaying body.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think it will sting him too.

However, I don't think a one size fits all. Many couples that live together have been together for many years. Some are divorcees that have children. To advocate that they dissolve their relationship immediately would be problematic and traumatic for all involved. I'd advocate just preaching the Word. God's GRACE is sufficient to keep them saved. Eventually the Word will do the work and convict them to marry.

Most pastors would counsel an immediate marriage in such a case; not dissolution of the relationship, unless the relationship itself was already adulterous or immoral in some other way. Preaching the Word would certainly include a recommendation against continued fornication, and relaying God's commandments in that regard sooner rather than later. I wouldn't withhold the truth about sinful behavior to new converts, and neither would most pastors.

More to the point, when pastors withhold information or delay certain teachings, it reveals their true feelings about the importance of those teachings.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Ya, spring it on them when they have their guard down. Or hope that peer pressure will do the job before hard preaching has to.

I was always taught that this would lead the women to wear dresses and not cut their hair too.

Case in point. Peer pressure mistaken for conviction.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

The UPCI is not crumbling.

Good grief!

Right. These enticing thread titles are created by those who... well, those who have their own motives (good or bad).

I would see the interview at most, as an acknowledgement that the AI "campaign" is not intended to be shoved onto the unsuspecting new converts, and that wisdom must be used to avoid unintended negative consequences.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I believe she's already fallen. We're just seeing the decaying body.

eh eh eh

Never mind the fact that many still find salvation and live overcoming lives for His Names sake within the UP Churches huh?

Never mind the fact that other American churches have declined at an alarming rate, huh?

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

This is more than shocking. DKB has been a very vocal proponent of Apostolic Identity. In fact, he coined the term Apostolic Identity. As South Texas District Superintendent, he pushed to exclude or remove any pastor who did not comply with the basic tenants of Apostolic Identity.

Now DKB admits he delayed teaching AI to his new converts and, in some cases, refused to teach it at all?

Amazing!

I find this admission very frustrating, because many UPCI Home Missionaries have been struggling to "line up" to the extra-biblical expectations of Apostolic Identity for years. They, unlike DKB, did not delay teaching it because they were pressured to teach it. This pressure was applied at every national and statewide conference in America over the past five years.

The hypocrisy is amazing.

"a lie cannot live forever" -

[The Mrs]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Case in point. Peer pressure mistaken for conviction.

Yes...this is the point I was driving at with my comment. We were always told it was the 'Holy Ghost' that would convict a woman to adhere to the standards of 'Apostolic Identity', and if she didn't, it just meant she was lacking and just didn't have enough of the Holy Ghost.

And while I believe that the Holy Ghost is fully capable of convicting a person of their sins and effecting change, I do not believe you can put the 'Apostolic Identity' and 'Sins' on a level playing field and expect the same results.

[DAII]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

The UPCI is not crumbling.

Good grief!

It's hurtin' ... this video is more evidence of it despite the "positive" momentum spin ...

The national conference staying in St. Louis for the foreseeable future is proof positive that these are very lean days.

[UnTraditional]

When a religious movement is more concerned with being spin doctors than truth bearers among their own ranks, maybe those in the movement should ask the Lord to search their hearts to make sure all is truly well and in alignment with scripture.