Christian Perspectives Concerning the Law

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Socialite

I both agree and disagree with you.

In that case, let the light keep shinning. Hopefully soon, you will agree entirely. After all, the coming of the Lord in the heart and mind of any individual is as the lightening that shineth out of the East even unto the West. It begins in the early morning hours as the first horns of light break over the horizon. Those who are migrating into the light as the earth turns perceives objects around them more clearly as the Day Star continues to arise in their spiritual minds. Progressions go from glory to glory as the words so beautifully state, "The path of the just is as a shining light, shining more and more unto the perfect day."

I agree that the spiritual nature of our relationship with God is irrelevant of our education.

I don't remember saying that. I think you misread me. Paul admonished his son, "Study to show thyself approved of God." Certainly the idea that we are not to read and study the word of God was not my thought at all. I envy those who are so literate in the letter more than I. I spend time each day in the study of the Word with deep internal contemplation.

I disagree that those who study the scriptures, are educated and seek to know more about what was said will not profit anything.

Again, I think you misread me. All of the fine education in the letter of the Word will profit nothing apart from the illumination of the Holy Ghost. The finest cathedral of knowledge that can be built will implode to become nothing, since its foundation is merely sand.

I also disagree with the notion that the Bible is an easy document to read and understand. That has been foolishly told to people. The Bible is an ancient document, written in an ancient language to ancient people. The culture, time, thought philosophy, historical relevance (events hinted at in scriptures that we have to dig back to find out and relate) and even writing genres and styles all present a pretty difficult task for those seeking to "rightly handle the Word." Anyone who says it's easy is fooling themselves.

Whether you agree or not, it is true that the Word of God is a closed book to the finest and most educated minds though they understand all mysteries of the letter apart from the Holy Ghost. On the other hand, the simplest of minds of those who are filled with the Holy Ghost will find that the sacred scriptures are flashing lights, dazzling stones, fiery objects of dazzling glory and beauty, if unencumbered by vain traditions taught them by false teachers.

It may be easy to read the Bible at a base level, not inquire much, and just grab key points. Sure. The Bible, separate of intense study can even minister to us in a devotional way. But to get the real sense of scripture, understand what it originally meant before we can apply what it means today, to rightly interpret and read... that is no small task. And an education, combined with a person full of the Spirit is highly recommended.

Recommended?

It is imperative that for anyone (educated or not) to receive anything of lasting value, they indeed must have the Holy Ghost to illuminate their minds with light and set their hearts ablaze with love. God is twofold, light and fire...which is to say, Truth and Love. Apart from the Holy Ghost, there is little to receive since the mind is closed and the heart is unregenerate. But, men become very wise in their own school of wisdom.... In reality, it is meaningless to the point of being nothing.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Your application of the KOG parables is exactly why I reasoned about the complexity of handling scripture in my prior post.

Yes, the KOG is one where we are born from above, it has transcendent reign, but to suggest that Jesus and Paul expected the Body of believers to be fragmented, bickering over non-issues and putting religious frames around such a beautiful art that is the Gospel... well, I can't agree that that's true. The KOG is within you, but it's also worked out best in community. Together. Unity. Paul talks of unity MUCH in his epistles. We don't have a picture of: let everyone splinter off, we are one Body anyway.

Now don't be like that "other guy" of whom I accused of not being able to read.

I neither said or suggested that Jesus and Paul EXPECTED the body of believers to be fragmented, bickering...etc., etc..

I said plainly that the body of Christ is ONE. That is not fragmented. Every joint of his body is fitly and properly placed...Eph. 4:16, "...the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth."

WHEW!!!

Sometimes, it's hard to be understood.

[Socialite]

Well, of course, I believe in spirit illumination apart from Holy Spirit baptism too

In fact, most of the study you are able to glean from, and most Apostolics, comes from degenerate, false-teaching, spirit-less braniacs. Imagine that.

It's funny that when I thought we agreed on a point, you were still like nailing Jello to a tree. I guess I should just quote you next time.

It sounds like your approach to scripture is as if it is a mysterious river of mystical puzzle pieces. I simply don't see it that way. Some see the Bible as the doorway into Narnia. An enchanted world. The Scriptures did not descend from the heavens into a person's lap and we called it the Bible. It was the record of inspired interactions of man and God (similar to those that even happen today). The Church circulated certain letters that by the 4th Century, when the canon was announced, it was sort of after-the-fact, since they were announcing what was already commonly accepted. Nevertheless, these writings were real Roman-style letters, poetry and story-telling. They were human words that had a meaning to the original audience.

I agree the Spirit plays a role in "understanding" of scripture, and that while unbelievers can offer credible insight into the mechanics of the scripture, apart from the Spirit they themselves will never personally "get it."

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Now don't be like that "other guy" of whom I accused of not being able to read.

I neither said or suggested that Jesus and Paul EXPECTED the body of believers to be fragmented, bickering...etc., etc..

I said plainly that the body of Christ is ONE. That is not fragmented. Every joint of his body is fitly and properly placed...Eph. 4:16, "...the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth."

WHEW!!!

Sometimes, it's hard to be understood.

Then your response never really adequately answered HaShal's comments.

[Socialite]

Elder Brother, How many times did you repent today? Are you sure your saved?

[Apprehended]

[QUOTE=Socialite;1013113]

Well, of course, I believe in spirit illumination apart from Holy Spirit baptism too

In fact, most of the study you are able to glean from, and most Apostolics, comes from degenerate, false-teaching, spirit-less braniacs. Imagine that.

It's funny that when I thought we agreed on a point, you were still like nailing Jello to a tree. I guess I should just quote you next time.

Hahaha....

Well, anyway...

You have to know that in reality, I like you.

Meanwhile, keep the jello coming. I will see what I can do with my nails.

It sounds like your approach to scripture is as if it is a mysterious river of mystical puzzle pieces. I simply don't see it that way. Some see the Bible as the doorway into Narnia. An enchanted world. The Scriptures did not descend from the heavens into a person's lap and we called it the Bible. It was the record of inspired interactions of man and God (similar to those that even happen today). The Church circulated certain letters that by the 4th Century, when the canon was announced, it was sort of after-the-fact, since they were announcing what was already commonly accepted. Nevertheless, these writings were real Roman-style letters, poetry and story-telling. They were human words that had a meaning to the original audience.

The highly educated Jews who spent their whole lives in study in the day of Jesus was so ignorant that when Jesus came they did not have enough knowledge to recognize who he was. In fact, they were so ignorant that they did not even recognize him as a Teacher or Prophet sent from God. Spiritually speaking, as Paul said, they had a veil over their eyes. They could not see Jesus as anything more than one who had a devil, a blasphemer, or at best a despised Samaritan. Because they were so spiritually blind they crucified him because they did not understand what was meant by the Temple of God..."...destroy this temple and I will raise it up in three days."

After the five-thousand Jews saw the great miracle of feeding them all until they were full with two little fishes and five little biscuits with twelve baskets of fragments left over. They passed from one side of the sea to the other to enter into a discourse with him concerning "Bread" sent down from heaven. Too blind to see what Jesus was talking about in Jn 6 as He, the Son of God/Son of Man being the living bread, they turned to walk away from him to follow them no more when Jesus finally confronted them with the truth which can only be perceived spiritually, "Except you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have not part of me."

Wonder how many of those same 5000 would raise their hands if they wre to be asked if they would like to go back to the time that they chose to no longer walk with him? Wonder where that 5000 men are today who looked the door of the sheepfold in the face but chose to forsake him? Wonder how many of them were in the crowd that shouted, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"

Yes, the Word of God can only be spiritually perceived. It is a divine operation of the Holy Ghost. "Blessed art thou Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my Father which is in heaven."

I agree the Spirit plays a role in "understanding" of scripture, and that while unbelievers can offer credible insight into the mechanics of the scripture, apart from the Spirit they themselves will never personally "get it."

I agree that the Spirit is the ONLY means of understanding the internal, spiritual intent of them. The letter is only a container like a barrel without the water, or a vase without its contents or much like a walnut hull without the meat. People crunch on the letter until they lose their teeth fall out much like crunching on the hull until they become spiritually toothless, yet are spiritually un-sustained.

If the educated could perceive the Word (which is Jesus Christ) apart from the Holy Ghost (which is Jesus Christ) they would not have crucified the LOrd of Glory. The living Word must vivify the written word. Otherwise the whole religious community become a gang of toothless wonders.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Then your response never really adequately answered HaShal's comments.

I thought I did. I'll go back and read it again.

If you think that the body of Christ is fragmented and disunited because every member is not in one building...

sorry...

You are mistaken.

Originally Posted by Socialite

Elder Brother, How many times did you repent today? Are you sure your saved?

Now, that right there is funny....

Some folk think that repentance is never required as a condition for salvation. Still others think that it is a one time thing. Neither is true. Repentance is a LIFE-STYLE. Paul said he did it everyday, a deed which he stated by his words in I Cor. 15:31, "...I die daily."

[Socialite]

Understanding the Words of Jesus

The difference between a disciple personally walking and talking with Jesus, and us today reading excerpts from these encounters (The Gospels) is a huge wall of culture, time and location.

Coming to Jesus does not require one to be the top of the class. Uncovering the ancient words does require studious and laborious effort.

[Apprehended]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Understanding the Words of Jesus

The difference between a disciple personally walking and talking with Jesus, and us today reading excerpts from these encounters (The Gospels) is a huge wall of culture, time and location.

Oh, OK...

Since that is the case, we are all probably deceived. Let's just throw the bible in the dump. After all, who can really understand it any how?

Coming to Jesus does not require one to be the top of the class. Uncovering the ancient words does require studious and laborious effort.

Oh, OK...

In that case, I wont throw the bible in the dump. In stead, I will just defer to the those who have given themselves to studious and laborious efforts to attain unto that which this dummy never could.



Did anyone ever accuse you of being "funny?"

[Socialite]

[QUOTE=Apprehended;1013135]

Oh, OK...

Since that is the case, we are all probably deceived. Let's just throw the bible in the dump. After all, who can really understand it any how?


Oh, OK...

In that case, I wont throw the bible in the dump. In stead, I will just defer to the those who have given themselves to studious and laborious efforts to attain unto that which this dummy never could.



Did anyone ever accuse you of being "funny?"

Sometimes you say things without really saying anything. Now that's funny!

Saying the Bible, as an ancient document, is rather complex, is not leaving the only option to throw it in a dumpster. "Sometimes it's hard to be understood!"