The Rev Dr Strange says AFF ees Hairy Tics!

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Stupid question. Was it ever considered feminine for a man not to have a beard? Yes. Was it ever considered a sin in the UPC for a man to have a beard? Yes.

I read an article about holiness preachers back in the day that didn't even think God would move/use a cleaned shaved man. We say seperate from the world but clean shave comes from the world.

[The Mrs]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Every church does have it's standards. Every church has standards that cannot be found to the exactness in scripture.
What I do not understand is why some feel the urgent need to correct every standard, that they disagree with.
Let me ask you this question. Was it ever considered "immoral" for a woman in America to wear pants?

How far back would you like to go? 100 yrs? 200 yrs? 500 yrs?

It used to be 'immoral' for them to not wear hats, gloves, a bajillion pettycoats.

It used to be 'immoral' for them to not wear corsets.

It used to be 'immoral' for them to not wear chastity belts.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

How far back would you like to go? 100 yrs? 200 yrs? 500 yrs?

It used to be 'immoral' for them to not wear hats, gloves, a bajillion pettycoats.

It used to be 'immoral' for them to not wear corsets.

It used to be 'immoral' for them to not wear chastity belts.

Long ties were considered outlandish.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

How far back would you like to go? 100 yrs? 200 yrs? 500 yrs?

It used to be 'immoral' for them to not wear hats, gloves, a bajillion pettycoats.

It used to be 'immoral' for them to not wear corsets.

It used to be 'immoral' for them to not wear chastity belts.

This is why I wish both sides would tone down the rhetoric about standards.
Both sides like to jump up and down about their "freedom" or their "holiness" and both sides are wrong, in my opinion.
The reason that I brought up the dress issue was not because I believe that it is immoral for a woman to wear pants.
It was to show that "standards", that are not specifically addressed in the Bible, change with time and culture.
So, what the argument is really about, is where we are at on the timeline or the culture.
Also, been in a lot of conservative churches and never have heard that wearing a beard was a sin. I am sure there are some that do believe this, but not the preachers that I have heard.
Most of them would say that there was more Bible for a beard than against it. However, the beard referred to in the Bible was not trimmed.
Now, they would ask saints to be clean shaven, but did not preach that it was a sin.

[brianmidwest]

Perhaps you been to church's different from my experience. Have been in and around the block awhile, let me tell you that MANY conservative church's preach the items mentioned in the UPC manual and beyond, including facizal hair. People can preach anything they want to. But to support those things from scripture in an entirely different matter. Without twisting scripture to meet our desired outcome, some have no place to stand.

[aegsm76]

Again, I guess I have been blessed in where I have attended.
Let me ask you this, would recreational use of drugs be against scripture?
Not enough to be addicted, just some "light" use.
Please give me scripture to support your belief.

[brianmidwest]

The scripture speaks directly to anything that brings your mind into an altered state.

Galatians 5:19-21 says, "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

I would also cite the admonition from Proverbs "For if they drink, they may forget the law," (Proverbs 31:5 NLT)

And

"Who has anguish? Who has sorrow? Who is always fighting? Who is always complaining? Who has unnecessary bruises? Who has bloodshot eyes? It is the one who spends long hours in taverns, trying out new drinks," (Proverbs 23:29-30)

Additionally, I would point out the medical research to proves the addictive nature of drugs. Whether the drug is legal or not, if it is taken to change alter one's senses as a recreational activity, it is wrong.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I read an article about holiness preachers back in the day that didn't even think God would move/use a cleaned shaved man. We say seperate from the world but clean shave comes from the world.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Again, I guess I have been blessed in where I have attended.
Let me ask you this, would recreational use of drugs be against scripture?
Not enough to be addicted, just some "light" use.
Please give me scripture to support your belief.

Does everything have to be classified as a sin before we'll refrain from doing it? I don't use drugs because of common sense.

[Carpenter]

Have you guys ever heard of a marriage being broken up because of standards and a death grip allegience to the church? Trust me it is happening to my very best friend...he loves God with all his heart and was torn to shreads by the UPC among discovering the true effect of grace and extrabiblical cultural beliefs. His wife has this cultish attachment to the church and would allow her marriage to be blown up as long as her relationship with the church remains intact. I am astounded just sitting listening to the poor fella. ...bless God