Where do I Belong? Part II

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

My story is similar to Pastor Keith's.

I am in somewhat of a no man's land, theologically, and the past year has been a year of major transition.

After spending the better part of two decades in the UPCI as an assistant pastor, youth pastor, church planter and senior pastor, I recently turned in my license. I did so because I could no longer stomach the extra-biblical standards, and because my view of what constitutes the plan of salvation has changed.

I now believe we are justified at faith. My view was formed from this passage.

Romans 3:19-28 NLT

"Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.

But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago. We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.

For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.

Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law."


If we are justified at the moment we believe, all else is secondary and proceeds from that saving faith. Of course, this new (to me) theology does not kosher with that of the majority of Apostolics so I suppose I am no longer Apostolic.

Like Keith, I recently disengaged from all of the minister's forums I had previously posted on.

It's cold out here.

Welcome to the Forum.

Take heart brother. There are hundreds, possibly thousands of ministers in the US that have experienced the very same thing you have. It's possible to network. In this interim, where you're still getting your "sea legs", just KNOW that the Lord Jesus is your friend and His expectations of you are quite different than what the org placed on you. If you are looking for a home church, don't commit to the first one you go to...and above all, protect as best you can any insinuations cast your way (and if you're married, your wife's) that you are "weak on the message". It's a canard used to make you feel guilty for leaving them.

I have a similar resume. Here's the thing. They WANT you to feel like it is cold. This is no lie, but the last words I heard a UPC pastor say to me as I got in my car to leave our home church was, "It's mighty cold out there....".
So, praise God, let the Lord Jesus lead you in this area called grace.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

My story is similar to Pastor Keith's.

I am in somewhat of a no man's land, theologically, and the past year has been a year of major transition.

After spending the better part of two decades in the UPCI as an assistant pastor, youth pastor, church planter and senior pastor, I recently turned in my license. I did so because I could no longer stomach the extra-biblical standards, and because my view of what constitutes the plan of salvation has changed.

I now believe we are justified at faith. My view was formed from this passage.

Romans 3:19-28 NLT

"Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses, and to show that the entire world is guilty before God. For no one can ever be made right with God by doing what the law commands. The law simply shows us how sinful we are.

But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago. We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.

For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.

Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law."


If we are justified at the moment we believe, all else is secondary and proceeds from that saving faith. Of course, this new (to me) theology does not kosher with that of the majority of Apostolics so I suppose I am no longer Apostolic.

Like Keith, I recently disengaged from all of the minister's forums I had previously posted on.

It's cold out here.

Do you understand that repentance is not included in this view of justification?

[rgcraig]

Cold is a place where you SEEK shelter and warmth - - perhaps this is right where God wants us. Closer to HIM.

Being all warm and cozy with the familiar crowd might not challenge us.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Do you understand that repentance is not included in this view of justification?

Some believe repentance accompanies belief (in the same instance).

Repentance meaning, one turning toward faith/trust in God.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Some believe repentance accompanies belief (in the same instance).

Repentance meaning, one turning toward faith/trust in God.

Then Peter was being redundant when he told those who were pricked in their hearts to repent in Acts 2 since the pricking in their hearts is evidence of conviction caused by faith in what Peter preached.

as was Jesus: And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Repentance is a change of mind or a turning from darkness to light that is brought about by hearing the gospel and believing it.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Do you understand that repentance is not included in this view of justification?

Do you understand that repentance is the act that takes place in order for this view of justification to even be available?

Quit twisting things around, Mizzie. You know better than that.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Then Peter was being redundant when he told those who were pricked in their hearts to repent in Acts 2 since the pricking in their hearts is evidence of conviction caused by faith in what Peter preached.

as was Jesus: And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Repentance is a change of mind or a turning from darkness to light that is brought about by hearing the gospel and believing it.

Not redundant.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Then Peter was being redundant when he told those who were pricked in their hearts to repent in Acts 2 since the pricking in their hearts is evidence of conviction caused by faith in what Peter preached.

as was Jesus: And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Repentance is a change of mind or a turning from darkness to light that is brought about by hearing the gospel and believing it.

And just how is this "left out" of what d'If said about justification?

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Then Peter was being redundant when he told those who were pricked in their hearts to repent in Acts 2 since the pricking in their hearts is evidence of conviction caused by faith in what Peter preached.

as was Jesus: And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Repentance is a change of mind or a turning from darkness to light that is brought about by hearing the gospel and believing it.

These are good traditional definitions of the word repentance, but if you're going to use the word Peter used for the altar call on the day of Pentecost it simply means reconsider.
IOW, reconsider, you Jews, who it was who you killed. Reconsider His claims concerning Himself as the Son of God, Son of man and Messiah.
Reconsidering something and being remorseful aren't the same thing, although one can lead to the other, which it did for 3,000 on the DofP.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Sabby

These are good traditional definitions of the word repentance, but if you're going to use the word Peter used for the altar call on the day of Pentecost it simply means reconsider.
IOW, reconsider, you Jews, who it was who you killed. Reconsider His claims concerning Himself as the Son of God, Son of man and Messiah.
Reconsidering something and being remorseful aren't the same thing, although one can lead to the other, which it did for 3,000 on the DofP.

Excellent thoughts, Savvy.