Landmark Healing Heresy

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by CC1

I knew I was in for a bad time when I tuned in and towards the beginning of service someone implored the congregation to "all speak in tongues now". That drives me nuts. For me speaking in tongues is such a sacred thing I can't stand for it to be trivialized or treated like something you do at will.

I will have to say, in all my years of being raised Pentecostal, I never once heard anyone say that. If I had, my jaw would have hit the floor. Tongues aren't something you just turn off and on at will.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I will have to say, in all my years of being raised Pentecostal, I never once heard anyone say that. If I had, my jaw would have hit the floor. Tongues aren't something you just turn off and on at will.

I have actually heard it quite a bit the last 15 years or so. A preacher I dearly love and respect would do it and I would just cringe.

Apparently there is a school of thought that since the Holy Spirit resides in us we can "access it" or "tap into it" or something like that at will and speak in tongues.

The funny thing is a congregation all speaking in tongues at the same time is violating scripture! Something I never heard in Pentecost including in obtaining a theology degree from a UPC Bible College.

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by CC1

The funny thing is a congregation all speaking in tongues at the same time is violating scripture! Something I never heard in Pentecost including in obtaining a theology degree from a UPC Bible College.

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NOW I MAY NEED BETTER UNDERSTANDING BUT.......I thought they all spoke in tongues at the same time in

Acts 2:4 (NLT)
And EVERYONE PRESENT was filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in other languages, as the Holy Spirit gave them this ability......

And then they did it again right while Peter was preaching.... I can see that in the same light as the Holy Ghost falling during preaching today on EVERYONE listening......

Acts 10:44-46 (NLT)
Even as Peter was saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell upon ALL who were listening to the message. [45] The Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles, too. [46] For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter asked,

WHAT DID I MISS?



..

[StillStanding]

Wow! You people are tough!

I tuned into the service last night because a friend who sings in the CLC choir asked us to.

While watching, my wife asked me if I missed being in that type of service. I do miss a gully washer every now and then, but I couldn't take it all of the time. To me, I see the crowd being primed and pumped from the platform. I see it almosy as a positive mental attitude type of event, so that is why the healing part didn't bother me that much. I took, "Fight for your healing" to mean "Fight for your positive mental attitude towards your healing."

I will repeat a funny comment my wife said when the camera scanned the preachers on the platform. It seemed that they all had almost a frown or look of scorn on their faces. She said, "Can't you just see the joy of the Lord on those preachers?". I almost spit out my Diet Dr. Pepper!

I saw the church as good people who are fighting against the world's influence. The result is being frozen culturally in the mid 20th century.

[DaffyDuck]

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway

Wow! You people are tough!

I tuned into the service last night because a friend who sings in the CLC choir asked us to.

While watching, my wife asked me if I missed being in that type of service. I do miss a gully washer every now and then, but I couldn't take it all of the time. To me, I see the crowd being primed and pumped from the platform. I see it almosy as a positive mental attitude type of event, so that is why the healing part didn't bother me that much. I took, "Fight for your healing" to mean "Fight for your positive mental attitude towards your healing."

I will repeat a funny comment my wife said when the camera scanned the preachers on the platform. It seemed that they all had almost a frown or look of scorn on their faces. She said, "Can't you just see the joy of the Lord on those preachers?". I almost spit out my Diet Dr. Pepper!

I saw the church as good people who are fighting against the world's influence. The result is being frozen culturally in the mid 20th century.

Sure, I can accept "Fight for your positive mental attitude towards your healing." It's not biblical in any way whatsoever, but sure, no harm-no foul....it's not terribly anti-biblical either. But to command that a sick person "IGNORE" their pain is completely and utterly irresponsible and negligent, even to the point when I wonder when someone's going to resort to legal means to remedy this nonsense, as in malpractice. Seriously...a man has just grabbed a microphone and told someone with a bleeding ulcer to ignore it, which then eventually kills him. Or, he's told a person who is in the beginning stages of cancer who has been passing blood, to "IGNORE" it, and that person does and rather than going to the doctor, they quickly reach stage 4 and the cancer is metastasized.

Does the man with the microphone even care? Does he consider his reckless words and their potential impact? There may be those who think my words are being overly dramatic but I think we all know that there are people in congregations who live and die by the words of The Man with the microphone. They take every single word as being directly from God.

Ezekiel said The Watchman was responsible for blood that may be on his hands. God help every one of us who ever claim to represent God and use the wisdom of the Holy Spirit to direct every single word.

[Praxeas]

I did not listen to this so I don't know if this is how it is being characterized but as far as healing being something we work or fight for let's remember we are not talking about salvation.

We are told
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith. Lay hold on eternal life, to which you are also called and have professed a good profession before many witnesses.

Faith is our means and Satan would have us not have faith or believe so in that there is a struggle

1Pe 5:8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
1Pe 5:9 Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world.

Resist means "to stand. To stand against, resist, whether in deed or word"

And of course we are told to
Eph 6:13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm.

As far as miracles go or healings the bible also informs us

Mat 7:7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
Mat 7:8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.

and

Luk 18:1 And he told them a parable to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart.
Luk 18:2 He said, "In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor respected man.
Luk 18:3 And there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, 'Give me justice against my adversary.'
Luk 18:4 For a while he refused, but afterward he said to himself, 'Though I neither fear God nor respect man,
Luk 18:5 yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will give her justice, so that she will not beat me down by her continual coming.'"
Luk 18:6 And the Lord said, "Hear what the unrighteous judge says.
Luk 18:7 And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them?
Luk 18:8 I tell you, he will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?"

Again as far as the message that was preached, I didn't listen to it all I just read the comments. I would inform someone of the real battle the bible tells us to fight in resisting sin, resisting the devil's attempt to not believe and by all means keep praying. If continued praying for something you need is a legalistic approach then I have to say the bible supports that. But I would say it's a mistake to confuse legalism/salvation with faith in God for something you need.

Our battle is not with God or a legalistic approach to impress Him. Our battle is often with our own faith or lack thereof, our flesh and Satan.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by DaffyDuck

Sure, I can accept "Fight for your positive mental attitude towards your healing." It's not biblical in any way whatsoever, but sure, no harm-no foul....it's not terribly anti-biblical either. But to command that a sick person "IGNORE" their pain is completely and utterly irresponsible and negligent, even to the point when I wonder when someone's going to resort to legal means to remedy this nonsense, as in malpractice. Seriously...a man has just grabbed a microphone and told someone with a bleeding ulcer to ignore it, which then eventually kills him. Or, he's told a person who is in the beginning stages of cancer who has been passing blood, to "IGNORE" it, and that person does and rather than going to the doctor, they quickly reach stage 4 and the cancer is metastasized.

Does the man with the microphone even care? Does he consider his reckless words and their potential impact? There may be those who think my words are being overly dramatic but I think we all know that there are people in congregations who live and die by the words of The Man with the microphone. They take every single word as being directly from God.

Ezekiel said The Watchman was responsible for blood that may be on his hands. God help every one of us who ever claim to represent God and use the wisdom of the Holy Spirit to direct every single word.

The onus is on us not the person that needs to be healed, IMO. These sorts of claims are made my people who want to be seen as "Prophets with a healing ministry" who put the onus on us.

I am leery of these kinds of Evangelists. I have seen more real miracles happen with just a local church than a flamboyant evangelist who has claims of revivals and miracles under his belt. The "ignore your pain" is IMO an evangelist "trick" for results.

I'm leery of the "evangelist" that picks out a fat man and declares the Lord told me that you have back problems...well DUH!

When put on the spot few are going to say "No, I did not get healed, Im still in pain" because they don't want to look stupid in front of their peers.

Make no mistake, healings and miracles DO happen and I believe very much in them but I have serious reservations of this "front man" phenomena where one man is leading a circus act of miracles nobody actually sees. I think God is more inclined to use the lowly local saint who is praying and fasting than some guy making the church to church rounds. This is my opinion and experience after 25 years of seeing Evangelists come to town and manipulate the emotions of people to do or say anything for a brief moment of false revival.

Real revival has souls being converted or the spiritually dead being raised. It's never about one man's ministry

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The onus is on us not the person that needs to be healed, IMO. These sorts of claims are made my people who want to be seen as "Prophets with a healing ministry" who put the onus on us.

I am leery of these kinds of Evangelists. I have seen more real miracles happen with just a local church than a flamboyant evangelist who has claims of revivals and miracles under his belt. The "ignore your pain" is IMO an evangelist "trick" for results.

I'm leery of the "evangelist" that picks out a fat man and declares the Lord told me that you have back problems...well DUH!

When put on the spot few are going to say "No, I did not get healed, Im still in pain" because they don't want to look stupid in front of their peers.

Make no mistake, healings and miracles DO happen and I believe very much in them but I have serious reservations of this "front man" phenomena where one man is leading a circus act of miracles nobody actually sees. I think God is more inclined to use the lowly local saint who is praying and fasting than some guy making the church to church rounds. This is my opinion and experience after 25 years of seeing Evangelists come to town and manipulate the emotions of people to do or say anything for a brief moment of false revival.

Real revival has souls being converted or the spiritually dead being raised. It's never about one man's ministry

Tell it!!

[Thinker]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Real revival has souls being converted or the spiritually dead being raised. It's never about one man's ministry

.

I was once told that there is many carnal issues one must ward off when they are given the "mic" of power..

* Power
* Control
* Glory
ect.....




.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Thinker

.

I was once told that there is many carnal issues one must ward off when they are given the "mic" of power..

* Power
* Control
* Glory
ect.....




.

and *volume?