Prodigal Son Distorted by FB Pastor

[Socialite]

If I'm God and trying to make the point to southerners that I'm BIG and IN CONTROL.... I decide to use a story about a monster truck... hear me out...

So my point was to tell you I was big and in control. But along comes someone 2,000 years later, picking up my story about monster trucks (probably something people in 2,000 years will have no clue what that means or why I used it with the audience I did) and wanting to "analyze" it further. They then talk about God having an oil change, needing his tires replaced, how if God is a truck, then that means he's not a car. He's not a fine sedan, a luxurious BMW. I mean, God referred to himself as a Monster Truck!

I pity the writers who have their writing picked apart subjectively thousands of years later.

Preaching is very little about exegesis and accuracy, and more about creativity these days.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I'm opposed to proof texting, so if that's what you're referring to then we're in agreement. However, I think the Bible is much more complex than what you propose, and I think it is highly likely that God did weave many layers of wisdom into every little verse. But hey, if you have all those "simple truths" figured out, then by all means--write a commentary and the rest of us can just stop studying and go by your interpretation. (Lest we be guilty of the "fluff" approach.)

The Bible is stories written down by an author who was trying to convey a truth. In this case, it's a Gospel writer (Luke, the only one who records this story) talking about the Kingdom of God. He had a specific purpose in writing what he did. He was not possessed and his hand taken over by the Almighty -- nor is that was "inspired of God" means.

My original pastor was the King of "multiple layers." He could be more creative than anyone. Personally, I think if we could understand and accept the single layer of wisdom, we'd do pretty well.

I don't doubt the Bible has multiple applications from simple principles. I also don't doubt the Bible doesn't speak to us individually in different ways in different seasons of our life. But interpreting the Bible like an easter egg hunt of goodies is not responsible exegesis and can be quite dangerous. It turns the reliance of what a Text means on us, not on the writer. The writer loses his pen.

I didn't say I had all the answers, so let's not be silly.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I disagree, Socialite. There are valid points to be brought out regarding the prodigal son's choices. When you analyze a text and try to figure out the whys, you can learn things that will keep you from making the same mistakes yourself--not just find out that God is merciful if you DO make the same mistakes. (And of course, that IS a crucial part of this story, no argument there.)

I do agree with your conclusions about the elder brother and Jesus' intent with that part of the story. Ironically, in order for you to draw that conclusion, you must try to derive more meaning from the parable than just the wonderful mercies of God similar to how RM derived meaning regarding the prodigal's rebellion.

So which is it? A story about the grace of God? Or a story meant to illustrate the horrid attitude of the rule-abiding Pharisees? Btw, there's nothing in the story to indicate that the father was any less merciful to the older brother because of his attitude than he was to the younger son for his errant ways. God forgives bad attitudes just as quickly as bad behavior.

Luke 15:28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.

Luke 15:31 And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.

The story is not random. The characters are very real, and happen to match the description of everyone surrounding him. Lost children, self-righteous older brothers and gracious and loving fathers. I think the Parable of the Lost Son (even out of the other "lost parables" in Luke 15) tells the Gospel better than any other.

God is gracious and loving. He's not interested in you proving yourself, earning your way -- he desired to laud over you, to flood over you with Grace. He doesn't even want to hear your scheming, know how it is you will work yourself back into good favor... he already accepts you. By this grace you understand the beauty and riches of the Father's house. It's not about rules. It's only about rules when there is no grace. For the elder brother, who found this hard to stomach, we see zealous and "righteous" Jews observing a Messiah that is talking to low-lives, sinners and even Samaritans.

It's not either/or. But it must be in the story. Making the story about rules doesn't even flow with the story. Saying he came back because he realized the rules weren't so bad, ruins the art of the master's painting.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Socialite

The Bible is stories written down by an author who was trying to convey a truth. In this case, it's a Gospel writer (Luke, the only one who records this story) talking about the Kingdom of God. He had a specific purpose in writing what he did. He was not possessed and his hand taken over by the Almighty -- nor is that was "inspired of God" means.

My original pastor was the King of "multiple layers." He could be more creative than anyone. Personally, I think if we could understand and accept the single layer of wisdom, we'd do pretty well.

I don't doubt the Bible has multiple applications from simple principles. I also don't doubt the Bible doesn't speak to us individually in different ways in different seasons of our life. But interpreting the Bible like an easter egg hunt of goodies is not responsible exegesis and can be quite dangerous. It turns the reliance of what a Text means on us, not on the writer. The writer loses his pen.

I didn't say I had all the answers, so let's not be silly.

Well put; I agree. In this case, the story teller/author was Jesus-not Luke. Luke only transcribed it.

The problem is, even when we closely examine such stories using responsible exegesis and try to figure out the author's intent, we still come up with as many interpretations as belly buttons.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Well put; I agree. In this case, the story teller/author was Jesus-not Luke. Luke only transcribed it.

The problem is, even when we closely examine such stories using responsible exegesis and try to figure out the author's intent, we still come up with as many interpretations as belly buttons.

True, Luke quoted Jesus, but like the other Gospels (John getting the most praise), the writers are framing a story using clips from the Master. Like a video editing project. Luke is trying to convey something about Jesus by providing even his own words.

What you said in the bold is true: we still come up with many interpretations and sometimes murky waters of disagreement (1 Cor 11, for example). But we must be honest when that happens. Also, many times this happens because of a disregard of authorial intent. I don't pretend to suggest that exegesis is easy, or that I'm the master. But going through great pains and disciplines to make sure we are striving to preserve the words and meaning once given, is critical.

Creativity is good, but it should never override exegesis.

[Rob McKee]

Originally Posted by Socialite

The "WHY" isn't the subject of the story. Period. (Says Who? You? Whoever you may be..)

We can speculate, but really, you and I are both the Prodigal. We are Adam. We are sinners. The point is, the Prodigal was a sinner. He tried living life his own way. Reading "rules" into this story molests the picture and distorts it into a completely different picture.

The only "rule abider" in the story is the elder brother. (So the younger WASN'T a RULE ABIDER...wow...sounds like what I just said) Coincidentally, I believe this is who the story was primarily directed to, the elder brother Pharisees and "righteous" Jews who hated that Jesus was hanging with sinners.

It deals with them both...both boys had the wrong attitude about their Father.

Luke 15 has one theme... "Lost-Ness"
3 Characters...

• Lost Sheep
• Lost Coin
• Lost Son

3 Reasons For Being Lost

• Sheep = Lust (wandered away)
• Coin = Carelessness (House got dirty)
• Son = Rebellion (Didn't want to live under Daddy's control...Nobody's going to tell me what to do)

3 Responses from the Pastor

• Sheep = Drop everything...grab them and drag them back
• Coin = Clean the House
• Son = Watch and wait for some sign of return...then celebrate

The story of the elder brother is a note to the text...aimed at the attitude those who remain. There is no "elder coin" or "elder sheep" so it is probably not the central message that Jesus is trying to convey in this obvious grouping of the same subject.

The story of the Elder brother IS important. It's possible to live for God and be faithful yet have the wrong attitude and not celebrate when someone who's gone through a time of backsliding...comes back home. Just as a test to this scripture...Socialite...try it next Sunday Socialite and see if there's any "elder brothers" in that church you left. (Said in jest...don't be angry). Better yet...drop into POK...I'll buy you a burger after church.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Rob McKee

It deals with them both...both boys had the wrong attitude about their Father.

Luke 15 has one theme... "Lost-Ness"
3 Characters...

• Lost Sheep
• Lost Coin
• Lost Son

3 Reasons For Being Lost

• Sheep = Lust (wandered away)
• Coin = Carelessness (House got dirty)
• Son = Rebellion (Didn't want to live under Daddy's control...Nobody's going to tell me what to do)

3 Responses from the Pastor

• Sheep = Drop everything...grab them and drag them back
• Coin = Clean the House
• Son = Watch and wait for some sign of return...then celebrate

[COLOR="Red"]
The story of the elder brother is a note to the text...aimed at the attitude those who remain. There is no "elder coin" or "elder sheep" so it is probably not the central message that Jesus is trying to convey in this obvious grouping of the same subject.

The story of the Elder brother IS important. It's possible to live for God and be faithful yet have the wrong attitude and not celebrate when someone who's gone through a time of backsliding...comes back home....

[Socialite]

Luke 15:1-3

Tax collectors and other notorious sinners often came to listen to Jesus teach. 2 This made the Pharisees and teachers of religious law complain that he was associating with such sinful people—even eating with them!

3 So Jesus told them this story:

Leading into the Lost Son, we get "To illustrate the point further, Jesus told them this story..."

Jesus then, huddles them together and shares another story with the disciples (shrewd manager), but he's not so secretive, the elder brothers hear him:

The Pharisees, who dearly loved their money, heard all this and scoffed at him. 15 Then he said to them, “You like to appear righteous in public, but God knows your hearts. What this world honors is detestable in the sight of God.

What Jesus brought to the Kingdom was something new. It didn't fit the old mold. He came to sinners, before they could ever get right with him. He humiliated himself as God to love those who were disobedient.

This isn't just about "backsliders." That's old-school Apo logic. As a matter of fact, it's not even about "backsliders" --- it's about God's grace to all who were lost but now are found, blind but now see.... who were wrecked but are now salvaged and redeemed. The elders brothers aren't just those who don't "love backsliders." The elder brothers are those who try to please the father by obeying rules, who feel they have twisted the Father's arm, earned salvation by doing what they are told, those who feel like God is the patron, who get mad when things don't go their way, because after all, God owes them for their "sacrifice." The elder brothers are those who attempt to gain the Father's favor by any means that doesn't include just letting him love on you... "this has been yours all along." Their works justify them. The father's house is about rules for them, not about a loving, playful, and yes, frivolous God!

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Rob McKee

It deals with them both...both boys had the wrong attitude about their Father.

Luke 15 has one theme... "Lost-Ness"
3 Characters...

• Lost Sheep
• Lost Coin
• Lost Son

3 Reasons For Being Lost

• Sheep = Lust (wandered away)
• Coin = Carelessness (House got dirty)
• Son = Rebellion (Didn't want to live under Daddy's control...Nobody's going to tell me what to do)

3 Responses from the Pastor

• Sheep = Drop everything...grab them and drag them back
• Coin = Clean the House
• Son = Watch and wait for some sign of return...then celebrate

The story of the elder brother is a note to the text...aimed at the attitude those who remain. There is no "elder coin" or "elder sheep" so it is probably not the central message that Jesus is trying to convey in this obvious grouping of the same subject.

The story of the Elder brother IS important. It's possible to live for God and be faithful yet have the wrong attitude and not celebrate when someone who's gone through a time of backsliding...comes back home. Just as a test to this scripture...Socialite...try it next Sunday Socialite and see if there's any "elder brothers" in that church you left. (Said in jest...don't be angry). Better yet...drop into POK...I'll buy you a burger after church.

The Story speaks of God's, not the Pastor's.
Clean the house? I'll give it to you, you are as creative as they come. You'll have a great career as an Apostolic pastor.

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Rob McKee

It deals with them both...both boys had the wrong attitude about their Father.

Luke 15 has one theme... "Lost-Ness"
3 Characters...

• Lost Sheep
• Lost Coin
• Lost Son

3 Reasons For Being Lost

• Sheep = Lust (wandered away)
• Coin = Carelessness (House got dirty)
• Son = Rebellion (Didn't want to live under Daddy's control...Nobody's going to tell me what to do)

3 Responses from the Pastor

• Sheep = Drop everything...grab them and drag them back
• Coin = Clean the House
• Son = Watch and wait for some sign of return...then celebrate

The story of the elder brother is a note to the text...aimed at the attitude those who remain. There is no "elder coin" or "elder sheep" so it is probably not the central message that Jesus is trying to convey in this obvious grouping of the same subject.

The story of the Elder brother IS important. It's possible to live for God and be faithful yet have the wrong attitude and not celebrate when someone who's gone through a time of backsliding...comes back home. Just as a test to this scripture...Socialite...try it next Sunday Socialite and see if there's any "elder brothers" in that church you left. (Said in jest...don't be angry). Better yet...drop into POK...I'll buy you a burger after church.

How is a coin careless?

Man you are a pentecostal preacher for sure, the Scripture is like putty in your hands.

That's just plain silly there is nothing that indicates your take on the parables nothing at all.