The questions I concluded with have prompted a lively and sometimes heated debate, not only secular literary circles, but also among students and scholars of the Bible. Throughout the first half of the 20th century, the traditional approach to interpreting literature, biblical or secular, was to assume that the author determines the meaning and the reader's job is to find that meaning. Within the world of secular literary criticism, however, this approach came under attack through the latter half of the 20th century, and many literary critics today argue that is is the reader, and not the author, who determines what a text means.
So biblical scholars began asking: What is meaning? They concluded that the term meaning only applies as a reader interacts with the Text -- that is takes both the reader and the text to produce meaning. The author, they argued, is no longer involved.
Part 3
Next to consider (after one has already considered the previous questions):
Does the Bible have different levels of meaning? That is, after we have seen the so-called surface meaning or literal meaning, are there any other, deeper levels of spiritual meaning?
Example:
Quote:
You're at a Bible Study with a dozen other college students. It is your first time to this study and you are a bit uncomfortable. You have devoured the cookies and are now concentrating on the soda pop. A tall, skinny guy in jeans sitting to your right opens in prayer. You're pretty sure his name is Josh, but you've only met him once. After prayer he reads the passage from Luke 15:8-10:
8 “Or suppose a woman has ten silver coins[a] and loses one. Doesn’t she light a lamp, sweep the house and search carefully until she finds it? 9 And when she finds it, she calls her friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost coin.’ 10 In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
"OK," continues Josh. "There are more cookies in the kitchen if you need them and I think we have another bag of Fritos around here somewhere. So, what do you think the passage means? What is God trying to teach us here?"
"I don't know," begins a girl with blond hair, wearing a DC Talk t-shirt. "But my Study Bible says that the houses in those days had low roofs and few windows, so it was kind of hard to see in there. That's why she needed the lamp."
Jared, a guy you know from your English class, is sitting across from your eating Fritos. He sits up and chimes in, "Yeah, and she has to sweep out the house because it's dirty. So we have a dark, dirty house with not much light. I thnk this is like the world, you know? I mean, when we drift back into the world it's like being that coin... not able to see clearly... lost in the dark and in the dirt... unable to see Jesus. So the house stands for the world and we are the coin when we backslide. Jesus, of course, is the one who comes and looks for us and finds us in the dark."
You are thinking that Jared is making pretty good sense. And he is a smart guy. You nod your head like you knew this all the time.
"So you're saying that the woman is Jesus," objects a big guy named Matt. "I can't go for that." Matt is a macho kind of guy. He lived down the hall from you in the dorm during your freshman year. Drives a nice pickup but is not really a rocket scientist. You think maybe he is kidding, but he looks serious about it.
"It's a parable," answers Jared. "It doesn't matter if they portray Jesus as a woman."
"I don't have any problem with Jesus being played by a woman," offers Jessica. She is the cute valley girl in the room. She seems interested in Jared all of a sudden. "But Jared, I never thought of the house as referring to the world. When I think of a dark place where can get lost, I think of the church today. I mean, just look at all the churches today that are not really following Jesus and just preaching psychology and stuff. You know, it's like that church in the Book of Revelation that Jesus says is lukewarm. The church really needs the light of the gospel today. And remember that all of those early churches were house churches, weren't they? I mean, they met in houses instead of churches like we do. So the house could be referring to the churches. It makes sense to me anyway."
It's making sense now to you too. You nod your head in agreement. Any moron can see that she is right.
"But then what could the coin be?" asks Brian, the skater kid in the group. "And is there any more dip for these Fritos?"
"Well," responds Jessica, "maybe the coin represents the true, faithful congregations that just seem to get lost in the midst of all those others churches who don't know what's going on. At least, that's the way it looks to me. This dip is over there!"
"And then maybe the woman in the story really represents the pastor of a true church," suggests Jared. "He is sweeping out all of the false doctrine by trying to find true believers."
"What's all this woman stuff!" blurts out Matt again. "First she is Jesus and now she is a pastor. Come on, now. We're not a bunch of radical feminists!"
"I never really thought about the house as being churches," offers the DC Talk t-shirt girl. "If the house is dark and dirty, it is probably referring to our hearts. Isn't that what is dark and dirty in our lives? We try and try to follow Christ but we fail because our hearts are not clean. However, Jesus comes and cleans our hearts, just like the woman in this story. He sweeps them out and then forgives us of all our sins. I like to think of Jesus as sweeping out my heart and making me clean. Isn't that neat!?" She smiled brightly, satisfied with her answer. "And look, my Study Bible says that the brooms they had in the Bible days were made of numerous two-foot-long straws bundled together and tied at the top. Wow! You know, like one straw can't do anything but when they are all bundled together, Jesus sweeps out our hearts! What does he use to cleanse us? The Bible, right? The Bible is also composed of lots of individual books, sixty-six to be exact, and they are all bound up together so that they will be strong. Jesus cleanses our hearts with the Bible. Isn't this awesome!"
You try to think up something deeply spiritual, but can't. You find yourself a bit confused as well. Can the house refer to all these things? You wonder which meaning Jesus intended. Should you just randomly choose one of the meanings? You're thinking that each of them made a lot of sense...
Did you notice how arbitrary the various interpretations were in the story? The Bible Study members felt free to develop whatever meaning struck their fancy. None of them seemed overly concerned to determine the meaning Jesus intended when he spoke the words or what Luke intended when he wrote it down under the guidance of the Spirit.
None of the participants neither seemed to consider the context. The preceding story, for example, deals with the parable of the shepherd who loses one of his sheep, leaves his other 99, and searches until he finds the lost one, at which time he rejoices. The following story is the parable of the lost son, in which the father rejoices when his lost son is restored. THe last verse of the parable of the woman and the coin explicitly states as much: "In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents."
The woman is concerned over losing the coin because it is important to her. God feels the same about us. The woman goes to great lengths to find the coin. God likewise goes to great lengths to bring you and me into the kingdom. Finally, she rejoices after finding the coin. God also rejoices after we are "found" and restored. This seems to be the meaning intended by the author.
We do not seek to create meaning; rather, we seek to discover the meaning that is already there.
The students missed the obvious meaning because they want to find the deep, hidden, "spiritual" meaning. Their desire to find the deeper meaning drives them right past the obvious meaning. In reality, the spiritual meaning is that Christ searches for the lost and rejoices when they are found.
The Bible is a spiritual book dealing with spiritual issues. We do not have to spiritualize it with our fertile imagination. And when we attempt to find a deeper, hidden, "superspiritual" meaning, we usually find ourselves moving into an area of reader response where we are the ones determining the meaning rather than the text. In our zeal for super spiritual meaning, we bypass the message God had intended for us -- in essence substituting our word for his.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socialite
The younger son merited the Father's love (your words),
Because God knows the thoughts and intents of our heart.
Quote:
Obedience comes before Grace (your words)
Because it is written in His Word.
Quote:
PO, I'm disappointed, Sis, that you have been with Him this long, yet don't understand completely what he did for you
Because I know, more than anyone, what He has done for me.
Saddens me, truly.
The younger son's heart is just like yours and mine. Filthy, selfish, short of his glory and full of sin. He didn't impress the father with his heart. That's just silly, PO. And that certainly isn't the story we have here!!
Nowhere in the Word does obedience come before Grace, and certainly not in terms of the Gospel. You are far outweighed there. That's elder brother talk.
Once again, I am not one for reading wild interpretations into scripture. However, back to the original post, I have no problem with what was written by Rob and consider it in keeping with the context of the story. I stated this before I knew who the pastor was or what organization he was affiliated with. (Of course, in the interest of full disclosure, given that this IS AFF I kinda had a hunch )
Quote:
The prodigal didn't leave the father's house because of the provision. He left because of the rules. It took a famine for him to realize that it's "the rules" of the Father's house that create provision...and those rules aren't so bad. (PASTOR'S NAME OMITTED)
He took his provision and the Bible is clear that he immediately engaged in riotous, wild, and lawless living. The son's desire is clear in context. Does that ultimately make it a story about rules and only rules...no. At the end of the day, is it a story about Grace and only Grace?...no. It's a story about grace and forgiveness and repentance and humility and jealousy and false piety and Pharisaical hypocrisy and Agape love and perhaps a few other things.
I don't think that seeing these elements in context is adding anything to this beautiful story.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Once again, I am not one for reading wild interpretations into scripture. However, back to the original post, I have no problem with what was written by Rob and consider it in keeping with the context of the story. I stated this before I knew who the pastor was or what organization he was affiliated with. (Of course, in the interest of full disclosure, given that this IS AFF I kinda had a hunch )
Quote:
The prodigal didn't leave the father's house because of the provision. He left because of the rules. It took a famine for him to realize that it's "the rules" of the Father's house that create provision...and those rules aren't so bad. (PASTOR'S NAME OMITTED)
He took his provision and the Bible is clear that he immediately engaged in riotous, wild, and lawless living. The son's desire is clear in context. Does that ultimately make it a story about rules and only rules...no. At the end of the day, is it a story about Grace and only Grace?...no. It's a story about grace and forgiveness and repentance and humility and jealousy and false piety and Pharisaical hypocrisy and Agape love and perhaps a few other things.
I don't think that seeing these elements in context is adding anything to this beautiful story.
And I still disagree, Tstew.
Quote:
It took a famine for him to realize that it's "the rules" of the Father's house that create provision...and those rules aren't so bad.
It's adding to the story, trying to make another case with the story, instead of understanding what the case is in the story.
The story is consistent with the other stories, with an added feature of the elder brother and young brother contrast.
And he most certainly didn't come back (from what we have in the story) because he made peace with rules and realized "they weren't so bad." He wanted to do his own thing, see the world, travel far away, live it up. Like Adam and Even he bought the lie that God was holding out on Him. He didn't trust or believe God. The younger brother is our story -- and the story of those lower class sinners that gathered around him, shadowed by the curious Pharisees.
But the critical error is massaging this parable to create a proverb about rules. There was certainly no context given in the post by Rob, and there is no context for assuming that it was rules that drove him away and consideration of those rules that brought him back. Point is, that's not the story. We can get as creative as we want, but that's not in the story. It's dangerous to take an illustration too far. If we wants to preach about obeying God, there's plenty of good fodder in scripture -- and in real life experience.
No, I don't want a house keeper. They always fuss when I don't pick up after myself and expect me to clean up things I spill. I want a wife that will do those things because thats her job!
I'm kidding. Ain't you got no sense of humor?
Nope, I want a wife that'll when I do something stupid (which is often)
I want her to me when I do something right (which isn't so often)
Is an and helps me be one too.
me when I'm down.
Is my very best in the whole world.
Always gives me her like I give her mine.
And will always be as with me as I am with her.
__________________
"Rest in the Lord, and wait patiently for Him...." -Psa. 37:7
Waiting for the Lord is easy... Waiting patiently? Not so much.
No, I don't want a house keeper. They always fuss when I don't pick up after myself and expect me to clean up things I spill. I want a wife that will do those things because thats her job!
I'm kidding. Ain't you got no sense of humor?
Nope, I want a wife that'll when I do something stupid (which is often)
I want her to me when I do something right (which isn't so often)
Is an and helps me be one too.
me when I'm down.
Is my very best in the whole world.
Always gives me her like I give her mine.
And will always be as with me as I am with her.
Sorry OneAccord, she's already taken. Celebrating 49 years this year!
BT
__________________
"From the time you're born, 'til you ride in the hearse, there ain't nothing bad that couldn't be worse!"
LIFE: Some days you're the dog and some days you're the hydrant!
I have ... Hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia! The fear of long words.
"Prediction is very hard, especially about the future." - Yogi Berra
"I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave in reflection." - Thomas Paine
No, I don't want a house keeper. They always fuss when I don't pick up after myself and expect me to clean up things I spill. I want a wife that will do those things because thats her job!
I'm kidding. Ain't you got no sense of humor?
Nope, I want a wife that'll when I do something stupid (which is often)
I want her to me when I do something right (which isn't so often)
Is an and helps me be one too.
me when I'm down.
Is my very best in the whole world.
Always gives me her like I give her mine.
And will always be as with me as I am with her.
You are a hopeless romantic!
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
me when I do something right (which isn't so often)
and helps me be one too.
me when I'm down.
in the whole world.
like I give her mine.
with me as I am with her.
Celebrating 49 years this year!
Linear Mode
