Prodigal Son Distorted by FB Pastor

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by revrandy

You got it all twisted too...

but that probably doesn't matter to you...

It's always easier to point out others...

If you have a point to make, please make it.

Peanut galleries are just forum decoration. Roll up your sleeves and wade in!

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I think every preacher who teaches Calvinism is adding to the word of God. Should I bring each of them into account? Is that may job?

Teaching that we are the elect of God, that He will be faithful and see us through to the end is adding to the Word?

And... does it put a stumbling block in the way? Really?

Which is a stumbling block offense --- You can't be saved unless you do this, this, this, this and this.

or

You can't do anything to save yourself. It's a gift from God. Only believe and receive it.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Isn't that your personal impression of the motive of the younger brother (the portion bolded in blue)? Sure sounds like something that you are accusing Rob of (and I have never met Rob). I think when he "came to his senses" that he felt remorse for what he had done and in going back to his father admitted his sin. I think he left his scheming days behind him back in the pig sty.

And I clarified that at least 3-4 times in this thread that it was a personal opinion.

I also believe my "speculation" is directly from the Story. It's not imaginative speculation.

You believe he felt remorse. I don't read that in the story. I read a guy who wants to go back to the Father's house because it sucks in the pig sty. Maybe that was remorse. Maybe. Rehearsing your speech just doesn't sound like that to me. And the "I have sinned against you" is common language for how someone would apologize in those days. It wasn't the Sinner's Prayer or anything. Either way, his plan to get back in good with the Father was to give his apology (desperately needed for the violent offense he left with), and then talk about how he will start as a hired servant. The grace he found wasn't expected. It was the most shocking, and climatic point of the entire story. If there was a repenting moment, I'd imagine it would have been then. It wasn't a speech, it was a heart wrecked by Grace.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Socialite

The context of his rehearsal was all in the same breath of him figuring out what he would. "I will tell him I've sinned against heaven (common Jewish response for repentance) and then work for a hired servant and get out of this pig farm." Nothing in there signifying a work of repentance in the son. No doubt, like any human, he felt bad. But mostly, he was coming back home because he spent all his money. Rob seems to think because he considered "the rules aren't so bad" (which you disagree) -- I lean more toward him genuinely wanting the Father's acceptance, but going about it in a way that most of us do. In spite of it, he was shown Grace --- even before his rehearsed story.

Grace is extended BEFORE our obedience. Let's get the Gospel the right way, PO.

So is everyone who comes to God when they are down and out (in the pigpen) scheming when they confess that they have sinned?

I think you're reading motives into the text that aren't there.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

You insist on a rehearsal "speech" and I just see that he "came to himself" and wanted to go home.


That isn't what Romans 1:5 says. "...received grace and apostleship, for obedience .." I suppose we could quibble over "eis", but I believe it to mean expressing the purpose - "in order to" and not "because of".

I am not sure I disagree with Rob. If he considered going home because it was a better place for him, I'm not sure that didn't include the "rules of house". We have "rules" in our house.

When my daughter was 16 and acting out, I called her and said, "You have a choice. You can live here and honor this home and God or you can come and get all of your belongings." We have rules and they will be honored.

I don't see the prodigal son living in different environment and if he walked away because of foolish youth, he also walked away from obedience. That, again, entails some rules were broken.

Hi PO, good to see you posting again!

I agree with Socialite on the previent grace aspect of salvation for a couple of reasons:

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

I believe salvation is synergistic, that is both God and man have a part in it, but without God initiating it, no one would ever be saved through Christ.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

So is everyone who comes to God when they are down and out (in the pigpen) scheming when they confess that they have sinned?

I think you're reading motives into the text that aren't there.

No. But the reality is, Grace comes to us first. We can't even come to God except the Spirit draw us (stepping away from the story for a sec). And believing in Him is a gift... from Him! (Eph 2)

I'm not reading motives into the text. Just the story --- you aren't seeing Jesus describing a repentant sinner. You are seeing him describe someone who is interested in getting his inheritance -- or at least shelter, back.

The young man became so hungry that even the pods he was feeding the pigs looked good to him. But no one gave him anything.

17 “When he finally came to his senses, he said to himself, ‘At home even the hired servants have food enough to spare, and here I am dying of hunger

The entire episode is based on him trying to figure out how he could eat again. There is nothing in hear about him feeling bad, thinking of all his warm memories with his father. In a real-life situation, I'd say those are possibilities. However, in a parable, we can't go too deep with things that aren't there. IOW, the message Jesus is telling us isn't something not in the story. It's all right there. We can even erase my "scheming" theory (which I feel has textual support ala his lines rehearsal), and skin this story down to a wasteful sinner, and a gracious Father who loved him in spite. The Father loved on him even before he could get his lines out. He showered him with prodigal love.

[Socialite]

I really like Eugene's take on it:

Then he said, "There was once a man who had two sons. The younger said to his father, 'Father, I want right now what's coming to me.'

12-16"So the father divided the property between them. It wasn't long before the younger son packed his bags and left for a distant country. There, undisciplined and dissipated, he wasted everything he had. After he had gone through all his money, there was a bad famine all through that country and he began to hurt. He signed on with a citizen there who assigned him to his fields to slop the pigs. He was so hungry he would have eaten the corncobs in the pig slop, but no one would give him any.

17-20"That brought him to his senses. He said, 'All those farmhands working for my father sit down to three meals a day, and here I am starving to death. I'm going back to my father. I'll say to him, Father, I've sinned against God, I've sinned before you; I don't deserve to be called your son. Take me on as a hired hand.' He got right up and went home to his father.

20-21"When he was still a long way off, his father saw him. His heart pounding, he ran out, embraced him, and kissed him. The son started his speech: 'Father, I've sinned against God, I've sinned before you; I don't deserve to be called your son ever again.'

22-24"But the father wasn't listening. He was calling to the servants, 'Quick. Bring a clean set of clothes and dress him. Put the family ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Then get a grain-fed heifer and roast it. We're going to feast! We're going to have a wonderful time! My son is here—given up for dead and now alive! Given up for lost and now found!' And they began to have a wonderful time.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Hi PO, good to see you posting again!

I agree with Socialite on the previent grace aspect of salvation for a couple of reasons:

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

I believe salvation is synergistic, that is both God and man have a part in it, but without God initiating it, no one would ever be saved through Christ.

You speak as one well acquainted with your theology. Bravo to you! (and I also thought your scriptures were completely relevant to your position)

IF we have a part, it's so small-time, so minuscule, so eclipsing to the reality of His part. We have to believe -- and he even gives us that as a gift (Eph 2).

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Hi PO, good to see you posting again!

I agree with Socialite on the previent grace aspect of salvation for a couple of reasons:

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

I believe salvation is synergistic, that is both God and man have a part in it, but without God initiating it, no one would ever be saved through Christ.

Hey, Mizpeh! We are in doors for a couple of days until this very cold weather is gone.

I do agree with the bold above, in part. Our salvation must begin to be initiated by God. However, if we were not here to receive from Him, His initiation would go nowhere. So, really, you cannot have one without the other.

Socialite comes across, and I could be misunderstanding, that grace alone saves us and I don't believe that to be true.

Because, as you said, man has his part in it as well.

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" I Peter 4:17

There are so many things in the Word that cannot stand alone - justification, sanctification, repentance, baptism, Spirit infilling, growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord, etc. It is just hard for me to pigeon-hole any one aspect and that would include grace. Offered, but must be received.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Socialite

You speak as one well acquainted with your theology. Bravo to you! (and I also thought your scriptures were completely relevant to your position)

IF we have a part, it's so small-time, so minuscule, so eclipsing to the reality of His part. We have to believe -- and he even gives us that as a gift (Eph 2).

Looks like it would have to be a 50/50 deal to me. Offer - receive.