The Slippery Emergent Slope

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by notofworks

But in hoping that many are saved outside of what I believe to be saving faith, aren't you slightly edging outside the lines of the absolutes? There is no other way, correct? To hope there may be others saved seems to look outside the borders and say, "Maybe.....".

If there's no maybe, there's no hope. If there's hope, there's maybe, no?

I have a good friend that in a recent conversation stated that he hoped the death of Jesus was so meaningful that it would change the way that God looked at mankind.

Hopeful at best, but just speculation.

Based on the text of scripture there is no salvation outside of faith in Jesus

"When I see the blood I will pass over you" Ex. 13

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

I have a good friend that in a recent conversation stated that he hoped the death of Jesus was so meaningful that it would change the way that God looked at mankind.

Hopeful at best, but just speculation.

Based on the text of scripture there is no salvation outside of faith in Jesus

"When I see the blood I will pass over you" Ex. 13

And like I said, I practice and follow the tenants of the Christian faith. Would you consider any possiblity....and Admin will probably arrive after I say this and insert a stop sign for questioning scripture....that the early followers, in their zeal, inserted absolutes into their writings that were canonized, when those absolutes hadn't actually been spoken by Jesus or directed by God?

And for anyone ready to shoot me and call me a heretic for asking.....I'm just asking...just thinking out loud.

And I'm just asking...did God create life just to send nearly all of it to eternal torment? That seems to portray an intentionally cruel God.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by notofworks

And like I said, I practice and follow the tenants of the Christian faith. Would you consider any possiblity....and Admin will probably arrive after I say this and insert a stop sign for questioning scripture....that the early followers, in their zeal, inserted absolutes into their writings that were canonized, when those absolutes hadn't actually been spoken by Jesus or directed by God?

And for anyone ready to shoot me and call me a heretic for asking.....I'm just asking...just thinking out loud.

And I'm just asking...did God create life just to send nearly all of it to eternal torment? That seems to portray an intentionally cruel God.

NOW, assuming the NT writers were false prophets (that is, they said things for God he didn't say) is a stretch to feel comfortable with Universalism. The Gospel writers who recorded Jesus' words alone are sufficient.

On the Story of Jesus, his Message, the meaning of His coming in flesh, we are very much dependent on the witness of scripture through these writers.

That said, I don't believe all of canonized scripture is literally God's voice speaking. Maxi posted a video awhile back that I think offers a good perspective (http://imgood.me/2010/04/roy-fishers-story-q-a/ )

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by notofworks

And like I said, I practice and follow the tenants of the Christian faith. Would you consider any possiblity....and Admin will probably arrive after I say this and insert a stop sign for questioning scripture....that the early followers, in their zeal, inserted absolutes into their writings that were canonized, when those absolutes hadn't actually been spoken by Jesus or directed by God?

And for anyone ready to shoot me and call me a heretic for asking.....I'm just asking...just thinking out loud.

And I'm just asking...did God create life just to send nearly all of it to eternal torment? That seems to portray an intentionally cruel God.

It would have been more neat and tidy if God had made humans as robots and programmed us to cheerfully obey him at all times.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Socialite

NOW, assuming the NT writers were false prophets (that is, they said things for God he didn't say) is a stretch to feel comfortable with Universalism. The Gospel writers who recorded Jesus' words alone are sufficient.

••We've all inserted personal opinion into spiritual oratory...I don't think that makes one a "False Prophet".

On the Story of Jesus, his Message, the meaning of His coming in flesh, we are very much dependent on the witness of scripture through these writers.

••Yes we are, and I trust them. Again, I'm just thinking out loud and asking questions.

That said, I don't believe all of canonized scripture is literally God's voice speaking. Maxi posted a video awhile back that I think offers a good perspective (http://imgooe/2010/04/roy-fishers-story-q-a/ )

••I frequently am unable to shake the feeling that there is much more we don't know that we do know.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

It would have been more neat and tidy if God had made humans as robots and programmed us to cheerfully obey him at all times.

Understood. But I struggle with the idea that God created life just because He felt the need to burn nearly all of it torment for 99.9999999% of its existence. That troubles me.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

It would have been more neat and tidy if God had made humans as robots and programmed us to cheerfully obey him at all times.

If God had created us and we cheerfully obeyed him at all times how can you say that doing so wouldn't be our choice? Therefore, cheerfully obeying God at all times doesn't make anyone a robot!

It's kind of like how everybody sins but you don't dare question that maybe we are robots that are programmed to sin. Nope you say sin is everyones choice. If sin is our choice then doing good would be our choice too. So if everyone did good then you ought to be consistent and say that if everyone does good then doing good is their choice just like you say if everyone sins then sin is their choice.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Understood. But I struggle with the idea that God created life just because He felt the need to burn nearly all of it torment for 99.9999999% of its existence. That troubles me.

I don't think that was God's motivation in creating life. He doesn't take any joy in punishing those who reject him. I think it grieves him immensely.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I don't think that was God's motivation in creating life. He doesn't take any joy in punishing those who reject him. I think it grieves him immensely.

But He knew in advance, therefore we would have to assume that burning nearly all of his ultimate creation for nearly all of its existence wouldn't bother Him...if we go by the letter of the law, literally as it is presented.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by notofworks

But He knew in advance, therefore we would have to assume that burning nearly all of his ultimate creation for nearly all of its existence wouldn't bother Him...if we go by the letter of the law, literally as it is presented.

The light doctrine gives preachers a "way out" of condemning everyone who has not obeyed Acts 2:38 to the lake of fire. It allows them to say that many folks who may have not received the Gospel or who may not have comprehended it can escape the Lake of Fire.

A couple of Scriptures used to support the idea that God accepts some who have not heard of the Gospel are Acts 10:34-35 and Romans 2:11-16