The Thief on the Cross

[Monarchianism]

JFROG -

That's basically what I am saying. I would use the phrase believes in Jesus instead of confesses to believe in God because the way you worded it seems to imply that the person doing the confessing might not be telling the truth about believing in God.

:: I say confesses, because confessing is not necessarily true faith. I can say I believe, but is it true? Even if you are truly born-again (which you'll naturally increase in faith), would you not confess? Anyone can confess. The only water I am aware of is that of wet-clear substance w/ no taste. Yet, you say that we are born of both after confessing, err.. believing. Some faith.

Baptisma = Immersion in WATER
Acts 2:38 - Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you.."
The response of those that heard this.. read on: Immersion in water, not just believing.
( Which, if you truly believe, you will be baptized ) ::

I don't believe in half-repentance. Either a person truly repents or he does not repent at all. But what do I mean by repentance? By repentance I mean turning away from sin. But how does a man turn from sin? A man turns from sin by turning toward Jesus. But how does a man turn toward Jesus? A man turns toward Jesus by having faith in Jesus. So to me repentance is simply having faith in Jesus. Does this repentance mean he will no longer sin? NO! He might still sin, BUT his faith in Jesus will cause him to sin less and less. There will be up's and down's though. The man might take 1 step forward and 2 steps back and then 2 steps forward and 3 steps back and then 3 steps forward and 1 step back and on and on but that doesn't mean the man didn't "fully repent" as you described it. He did repent by believing on Jesus even if he struggles to line up his life to Christ's teaching (as we all do to some degree. AMEN?) I do realize that this big long paragraph didn't really answer the question about "knowing if we have fully repented". I think my paragraph on baptism will answer that question.

:: Concerning Acts 2:38 and repentance - Strong's Concordance says:
3340 - to repent, to change any or all of the elements composing one's life: attitude, thoughts, and behaviours concerning the demands of God for right living:

Repenting requires more than simple believism. It says to "change one's life, attitude, thoughts." And you think faith alone cuts it? It's not faith if you don't prove your repentance.

Matthew 3:8 - "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance.."
Luke 3:8 - "Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance.."

Works show faith. How do we repent? By having faith? Well, I'd like to see a verse where having faith is repentance. Faith doesn't bring repentance, sorrow does:

II Corinthians 7:10 - "Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death."

Is it true sorrow? The Church members will know.
See what this godly sorrow has brought in you:

II Corinthians 7:11 - "See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done. At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter."

James 4:8-9 - "Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hand, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness." ::

Baptism is a physical act. If a man got baptized and doesn't know he did then that would be rather strange. However, I'll assume you mean how does a man know his baptism was valid. And my answer to that question is a man can not know for sure that his baptism was valid because his baptism is valid only by his faith in Christ and since he can never absolutely verify that he has faith in Christ (not even by his works because he may produce good works for reasons other than faith. For example, even the most wicked person you know will occasionally do a good deed and also there are many people that do many good deeds that have no faith.) Repentance is similar to baptism in this respect because repentance is having faith on Christ. But since we can never verify our faith on Christ then we do not have an absolute foundation for knowing that we have actually repented and been baptized validly. This does not mean we should doubt our salvation or our faith, it simply means that absolutes are hard to come by. It means we should trust that having enough faith to say Jesus is Lord is having real faith. However, while we trust that we have faith we should also strive to do away with our bad fruit and to gain good fruit so that our trust in our faith will be that much greater by seeing our lives being visibly transformed. The visible transformation is not our faith, instead it is the result of the faith which we had before any visible transformation took place.

:: Rather strange to not know if you were baptized? Then what was your comment?
You: "You see, I don't even have to define the exact meaning of being born of water and Spirit. I can speculate on what it means if I want. But in the end, all I must know is that by believing on God one is born of water and Spirit."
Speculating, sure, but that which is simple? Come on.
His/Her baptism should be valid if they have first repented, and are going on to be baptized. If they had not repented fully, could not God give the preacher a message to preach against that person? I have seen it happen.
Those that do "good deeds" are in a sense good, but in God's eyes it doesn't count.
Besides, how do you have "no faith" and repent?
Your faith on Christ is determined by your everyday actions, and the best evidence "experiences." No one knows where you stand, but your conscious does. Unless, God let's the man of God know where you stand. ( Which, I am a witness to this )
Absolutes are not "hard to come by."
"Making an absolute truth-claim that one cannot know anything absolutely is like saying "I cannot speak more than three words in English." If you were to ask me, "How can you only speak three words in English when you just spoke nine words in English?" you would not be evading the issue, or trying to be cute. You would be pointing out the self-refuting nature of my claim." - Jason Dulle.
We don't gain good fruit, we produce it. ::

Again the ability to absolutely know is hard to come by. A person can never be sure that he/she didn't just subconsciously fake tongues so asking how one can know is a question without an answer.

:: Absolutes are not hard to come by if you have common sense, but on this.. if God reveals it. Ever heard of "discernment?" Yeah, it's called a gift that comes through the Spirit. I've met a black woman with it. ::

It amazes me that you use II Timothy 3:5 as a verse to support tongues and to disfellowship over tongues. If you want to disfellowship then disfellowship over the bolded:

II Timothy 3:2-5
2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Or if you must disfellowship over those that deny the power then learn who those really are that have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. Those that deny the power are the people that deny the power of God to transform lives. It has nothing to do with tongues. It has everything to do with changing lives (most notably their own).

We should seek to be filled with the Spirit and when we are we will speak with other tongues. John 3:8 - "So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

I don't think John 3:8 has anything to do with tongues but I'll let you speculate it might if you want. I mean that's all you really have there is speculation.

:: I never said I "disfellowship" over tongues. I know a pretty honest man that is currently seeking for the Spirit and does believe ( In a sense ), but we don't kick him out, or tell him to sit down and be quiet. He takes part, and we help him. Anyone that is doing what you posted, we don't fellowship with ( as in, they don't take part ), but we don't kick them out. It would be wrong of us to. All are welcome, but things like the "pulpit" is sacred.

The power comes from the Spirit, not tongues.
Tongues is part of the evidence of the power. ::

I think I have answered your questions. So let me ask you 2.

Question 1: Why did you fail to comment on almost everything from my post where I referenced 1 John 5:2 (my post that you left this one as a reply)? I mean the most you did was kind of sarcastically toss aside all my reasoning in your opening paragraph. You did so without really explaining why? I'll give you the benefit of assuming that you did have a reason to toss it aside but I must ask what your reason was?


:: Did you tell me to? Here's my comment, then: Everyone has love, but not everyone has the true love that comes from God. ::

Question 2: Consider 1 John 5:9-11 NIV

9 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10 Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

To paraphrase: John says that whoever believes in the Son of God accepts God's testimony that God has given them eternal life.

So my question is: If you believe in the Son of God then why do you reject the testimony of God that both you and those who believe in the Son of God have eternal life? Or if you don't reject that testimony then can you explain how?

:: Comment: Absolutes can come through.
Sure you've heard of Atheists? Well, there's no atheist in a fox hole when in war.
So, everyone that has a measure of faith, without having the Spirit, can confess to believe.. but this particular verse is about those that are true and genuine. Anyone can say they believe and that they have eternal life. You have to HAVE the Spirit, because the Spirit IS of FAITH.

I Corinthians 12:9 - "To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;"
Galatians 5:22 - "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith," ::