Obama Throws Israel Under the Bus

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Do some research.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F4IGwuKdUQ

that's research?

[Praxeas]

Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a Jewish political movement that, in its broadest sense, has supported the self-determination of the Jewish people in a sovereign Jewish national homeland.[1] Since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily to advocate on behalf of the Jewish state and address threats to its continued existence and security. In a less common usage, the term may also refer to 1) non-political, Cultural Zionism, founded and represented most prominently by Ahad Ha'am; and 2) political support for the State of Israel by non-Jews, as in Christian Zionism.


Zionism does not have a uniform ideology, but has evolved in a dialogue among a plethora of ideologies: General Zionism, Religious Zionism, Labor Zionism, Revisionist Zionism, Green Zionism, etc. However, the common denominator among all Zionists is the claim to Eretz Israel as the national homeland of the Jews and as the legitimate focus for the Jewish national self-determination (as shown, among others, by Gideon Shimoni).[2] It is based on historical ties and religious traditions linking the Jewish people to the Land of Israel.[3]


After almost two millennia of existence of the Jewish diaspora without a national state, the Zionist movement was founded in the late 19th century by secular Jews, largely as a response by Ashkenazi Jews to rising antisemitism in Europe, exemplified by the Dreyfus Affair in France and the Anti-Jewish pogroms in the Russian Empire.[4] The political movement was formally established by the Austro-Hungarian journalist Theodor Herzl in 1897 following the publication of his book Der Judenstaat.[5] At that time, the movement sought to encourage Jewish migration to the Ottoman Palestine.


Although initially one of several Jewish political movements offering alternative responses to assimilation and antisemitism, Zionism grew rapidly and became the dominant force in Jewish politics with the destruction of Jewish life in Central and Eastern Europe where these alternative movements were rooted.


The movement was eventually successful in establishing Israel on 14 May 1948 (5 Iyyar 5708 in the Hebrew calendar), as the homeland for the Jewish people. The proportion of the world's Jews living in Israel has also steadily grown since the movement came into existence. Today roughly 40% of the world's Jews live in Israel.[6] These two outcomes represent the historical success of Zionism, unmatched by any other Jewish political movement in the past 2,000 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

[mfblume]

Notice the HIGHLIGHTS I use as follows to point out the secularization of the Zionist movement, showing it is stripping away God from the jews.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a Jewish political movement that, in its broadest sense, has supported the self-determination of the Jewish people in a sovereign Jewish national homeland.[1] Since the establishment of the State of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily to advocate on behalf of the Jewish state and address threats to its continued existence and security. In a less common usage, the term may also refer to 1) non-political, Cultural Zionism, founded and represented most prominently by Ahad Ha'am; and 2) political support for the State of Israel by non-Jews, as in Christian Zionism.


Zionism does not have a uniform ideology, but has evolved in a dialogue among a plethora of ideologies: General Zionism, Religious Zionism, Labor Zionism, Revisionist Zionism, Green Zionism, etc. However, the common denominator among all Zionists is the claim to Eretz Israel as the national homeland of the Jews and as the legitimate focus for the Jewish national self-determination (as shown, among others, by Gideon Shimoni).[2] It is based on historical ties and religious traditions linking the Jewish people to the Land of Israel.[3]

Here is what Orthodox Jews, themselves, have to say about it.

the ideology of Zionism is in total opposition to the teachings of traditional Judaism.

...

Zionism is a movement founded by Theodor Herzl in 1896 whose goal is the return of Jews to Eretz Yisrael, or Zion, the Jewish synonym for Jerusalem and the Land of Israel.

The name of "Zionism" comes from the hill Zion, the hill on which the Temple of Jerusalem was situated.

Supporters of this movement are called "Zionists".

The purpose of this website is to explain why traditional Jews do not support Zionism (the return to the land called "Israel") and why the Zionist idealogy is totally contrary to traditional Jewish law and beliefs and the teachings of the Holy Torah.

Immediately at the founding of the Zionist movement, masses of Jews under the leadership of their Rabbis, launched a heavy battle against Zionism. Their attack was directed not only at the non-religious Zionist idea, but rather, primarily at its opposition to the Torah-ordained path that Jewry must follow while in exile. As such, the Zionists incited the nations of the world, demanding political sovereignty over the Holy Land while remaining oblivious to the resentment this would arouse In the Palestinian Arabs, the land's veteran inhabitants. As stated, the leaders of Orthodox Jewry vehemently opposed the movement with all force.

The Zionists refused to heed the voice of the Rabbis and Torah authority. They persisted in their ways until they succeeded in influencing the British government to issue the Balfour Declaration concerning the "establishment of a national home for the Jews in the land of Israel." To our great sorrow, from that point on began the deterioration of the good relations between the Jews and the Arab inhabitants of the land. This occurred because the Arab people understood that the Zionists wished to seize ruler ship from them. In addition, the Arab people had suspicions as if the Jewish people wished to seize control of the Temple Mount and other similar sites. Matters worsened as a result.

The Jewish leadership of that time saw it as proper to clarify before the Arab leaders that the Torah-true Jews had no desire whatsoever for sovereignty, and that our desire was to continue to live in peace with the Arabs, as we had always done. The leader of the G-d-fearing Jewish community at that time, Rabbi Yoseph Chaim Zonnenfeld. of blessed memory, organized a delegation in July of 24' which visited King Hussein and his sons Faisal the King of Iraq and the Amir Abdullah In order to lucidly present to them the position of the G-d-fearing Jewish community. The Jewish delegation clarified unequivocally that Torah Jewry is totally opposed to the Zionist sovereignty over the Holy Land. It Is worth noting that the delegation was received with great honor. They were even assured that all Arab lands were completely open to Jews, however, on the condition that the Jews do not demand political rights. This condition also applied to the Holy Land. One of the members of the Jewish delegation, Professor Yisroel Yaakov De Haan, paid with his life for his participation.

Torah Jewry protests at every opportunity against the Zionist rule over the Holy Land, and the Zionist rebellion against the neighboring nations. Torah Jewry has condemned the Zionist oppression of the Palestinians, the land's veteran inhabitants who have been driven from their homes and properties. The Zionists' barbaric and violent deeds are absolutely antithetical to the essence of the Jewish people.

Torah Jewry has never ever recognized the Zionist state. Since the Zionists succeeding in establishing their state, Torah Jewry has continuously announced to the world that the Zionists do not represent the Jewish people, and that the name "Israel" that they use is a forgery. For as has been stated above, it is forbidden to us from the Torah to rebel against the nations, and all sovereignty by us is prohibited. Rather, we await the days when all the world will recognize the sovereignty of the Creator, and the words of the prophet Isaiah will yet be fulfilled: "And they will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. No nation will lift its sword against any other, nor will they learn warfare anymore."

Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews have refrained to this day from taking any funds from the Zionist regime, whether for their educational institutions, synagogues or other benefits. Obviously, they do not participate in the Zionist elections, whether for the "Knesset" or for the municipality. We do not serve in their army, and we even avoid speaking in the Hebrew language that the Zionists Invented. (incidentally, this is not the holy and true Hebrew language in which the Bible is written.) All this is done because Torah Jewry does not recognize the Zionist regime, which Is against the Torah and against humanity.

[Praxeas]

The bold part tells me zionism has one central tenet which is a jewish state. There are religious and secular zionists

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

The bold part tells me zionism has one central tenet which is a jewish state. There are religious and secular zionists

Just by that admission, though Prax, Zionism does not require religious adherence. And that means it robs the term JEW of its religious connotation and waters the term down from its spiritual significance. You cannot call a Jew a Jew unless he/she is Judaic. That means there is no JEWISH state without adherence to Judaism. The point is that it is not what God intended. God intended the Jew to follow Him, and Zionism does not require that. It thereby robs the Jew of God and puts focus on the land when Deut 30 said the land is their's if they follow Him and keep His law. The Land was SOLELY for Israel in serving God. That is why I think there is forever turmoil there since they are not there for God under Moses' Law, let alone acceptance of Christ.

Deuteronomy 30:1-5 KJV And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee, (2) And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; (3) That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. (4) If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: (5) And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I'm not the brighest bulb on the string I admit.
Is there anything to this ?
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/index.cfm

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Just by that admission, though Prax, Zionism does not require religious adherence. And that means it robs the term JEW of its religious connotation and waters the term down from its spiritual significance. You cannot call a Jew a Jew unless he/she is Judaic. That means there is no JEWISH state without adherence to Judaism. The point is that it is not what God intended. God intended the Jew to follow Him, and Zionism does not require that. It thereby robs the Jew of God and puts focus on the land when Deut 30 said the land is their's if they follow Him and keep His law. The Land was SOLELY for Israel in serving God. That is why I think there is forever turmoil there since they are not there for God under Moses' Law, let alone acceptance of Christ.

Deuteronomy 30:1-5 KJV And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee, (2) And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; (3) That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. (4) If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: (5) And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

that is my point. As i said the first time zionism is about an Israel, a nation, establishing it and keeping it. There are too many other ideologies

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

that is my point. As i said the first time zionism is about an Israel, a nation, establishing it and keeping it. There are too many other ideologies

Right. It is only about keeping a land, but trying to do so by disregarding the God-given heritage it has and Israel's purpose to serve God and be the light to the gentiles it was supposed to be under the old covenant. It's secular and about the land. It's like the rest of the world gone from God -- it lets people acknowledge God but in reality it cares not for God nor acknowledges God's ways as actual and real. It's just another secularization of something that was started by God, and they will not have peace until God is back in their focus again -- JUST LIKE AMERICA.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Right. It is only about keeping a land, but trying to do so by disregarding the God-given heritage it has and Israel's purpose to serve God and be the light to the gentiles it was supposed to be under the old covenant. It's secular and about the land. It's like the rest of the world gone from God -- it lets people acknowledge God but in reality it cares not for God nor acknowledges God's ways as actual and real. It's just another secularization of something that was started by God, and they will not have peace until God is back in their focus again -- JUST LIKE AMERICA.

What I read Zionism has many different ideological backgrounds, not just the secular. That may be what the secular zionists are pushing for though

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

What I read Zionism has many different ideological backgrounds, not just the secular. That may be what the secular zionists are pushing for though

The religious Zionists are by far a MINORITY amongst them. The secular is easily the largest. People need to read what the orthodox Torah-keeping Jews say at http://jewsagainstzionism.com

These are not racist antisemites, but Jews, themselves! lol