I was browsing the "eternal/temporary torture" thread and read where someone suggested infants are born innocent? I do understand the sensitivity of an infant's death and their eternal status. However, are infants really born "innocent?
We've read that, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Romans 5:12), and we also know, "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23).
If infants were born innocent and/or sinless, they would be "per-se" a duplication of Jesus. Yes, Jesus was sinless, but in order for Jesus to die, he had to become sin. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God ( 2nd Corinthians 5:21).
Thus, Jesus' murderer wasn't any individual but rather sin killed Him. If a child was born sinless, he/she would be exempt from Romans 5:12. Therefore, infants aren't sinless.
He doesn't say "All are born with sin"...Paul sad "All HAVE sinned"
So what is sin? Sin is the breaking of God's laws. What Law of God does an infant break? None...yet. But as they grow older they will sin
Mat 19:13 Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people, Mat 19:14 but Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven."
Mat 18:2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them Mat 18:3 and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Mat 18:4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
You also err in saying "in order for Jesus to die he had to become sin"..the bible does not say that.
He became a sin offering for us. He was our sacrificial lamb on whom all the sins of the world were put on. He did no sin. He was not a sinner. You quoted the right verse but it does not say "in order to die".
A child IS born sinless until they commit SIN. But they are not except because death came by one man on to ALL men.
That is where the sin NATURE comes in. Children, not having sinned yet, WILL sin because they have Adam's fallen sin nature. The only one able to resist the fallen sin nature and succumbed to sinning was Jesus
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He doesn't say "All are born with sin"...Paul sad "All HAVE sinned"
So what is sin? Sin is the breaking of God's laws. What Law of God does an infant break? None...yet. But as they grow older they will sin
Mat 19:13 Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people, Mat 19:14 but Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven."
Mat 18:2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them Mat 18:3 and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Mat 18:4 Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
You also err in saying "in order for Jesus to die he had to become sin"..the bible does not say that.
He became a sin offering for us. He was our sacrificial lamb on whom all the sins of the world were put on. He did no sin. He was not a sinner. You quoted the right verse but it does not say "in order to die".
A child IS born sinless until they commit SIN. But they are not except because death came by one man on to ALL men.
That is where the sin NATURE comes in. Children, not having sinned yet, WILL sin because they have Adam's fallen sin nature. The only one able to resist the fallen sin nature and succumbed to sinning was Jesus
Death passed to ALL men..this would include infants IMHO
Death passed to ALL men..this would include infants IMHO
he isnt denying that. the infants we are discussing is the ones that have died. But death passed on through them because of adam. the baby itself hasnt committed any sin just because it was born
he isnt denying that. the infants we are discussing is the ones that have died. But death passed on through them because of adam. the baby itself hasnt committed any sin just because it was born
Does this mean that babies die only because of what Adam did?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I was browsing the "eternal/temporary torture" thread and read where someone suggested infants are born innocent? I do understand the sensitivity of an infant's death and their eternal status. However, are infants really born "innocent?
We've read that, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" (Romans 5:12), and we also know, "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23).
If infants were born innocent and/or sinless, they would be "per-se" a duplication of Jesus. Yes, Jesus was sinless, but in order for Jesus to die, he had to become sin. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God ( 2nd Corinthians 5:21).
Thus, Jesus' murderer wasn't any individual but rather sin killed Him. If a child was born sinless, he/she would be exempt from Romans 5:12. Therefore, infants aren't sinless.
Infants definitely have fallen human nature (sinful nature). However, said nature hasn't manifest active sin against the creator. Thus they are "innocent of sin" against God. If allowed to live, their sin nature will eventually manifest active sin against God.
So with regards to nature infants are sinful beings.
With regards to action infants are sinless beings.
Infants definitely have fallen human nature (sinful nature). However, said nature hasn't manifest active sin against the creator. Thus they are "innocent of sin" against God. If allowed to live, their sin nature will eventually manifest active sin against God.
So with regards to nature infants are sinful beings.
With regards to action infants are sinless beings.
I agree. Children are born innocent and without sins, as Adam & Eve were innocent in the beginning. Children have free will, and thus the capacity (even the predilection) to sin, as did Adam and Eve.
Infants definitely have fallen human nature (sinful nature). However, said nature hasn't manifest active sin against the creator. Thus they are "innocent of sin" against God. If allowed to live, their sin nature will eventually manifest active sin against God.
So with regards to nature infants are sinful beings.
With regards to action infants are sinless beings.
Hybrid Mode
