Are Infants Really Born Sinless?

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

Pr
So no, these babies didn't commit adultery or rob banks as you suggested, they inherited the Adamic sin.

we need to correct this cause your wording is off.

The babies do not inherit adamic sin. No body on this earth except for adam and eve ate that fruit. That was their sin. But we all have to pay for it cause death came into the world because of it.

the babies inherited adamic nature. and its the ability to commit sin. Its not saying the baby has already commited sin.

Every person is Judged on their sins committed. The babies have no sin, but they do have a adamic nature, meaning eventually when they grow they will commit sin

1 john 3:4

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law

Babies are not born already breaking the law. I dont care how you want to digest it. Sin comes about by breaking the law.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

Praxeas,

No, Jesus never sinned, 1 Peter 2:22, "He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth."

You asked what sins do infants commit? I've read all your post, so please take mine carefully into consideration.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned


Notice, the scripture reads death entered the world through sin. Due to sin, death came to all men because of sin.

When we're born, we begin our journey to what ultimately will lead to death. While some die young and others at an elderly age, the death of a human being is due to the effect of sin.

No again death is due to the effect of Adam's sin, not yours. You will die because of Adam's sin

BTW what sin do infants commit? Still didn't answer

Remember, "sin entered the world through one man" (through Adam's disobedience sin entered the world), and death through sin (because of sin, death entered the world), "and in this way death came to all men" (we inherited Adam's sin because we all will die).

No we did not inherit Adam's sin. We inherited the consequences of Adam's sin.

Rom 5:14 But death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is the type of Him who was to come

After Adam's transgression, he died spiritually, and also began dying physically. Why do infants or adults die? Because we're born with sin that we inherited from Adam. How do we know that? Because sin brings death. A sinless body wouldn't die. Death is the effect of sin indwelling within our carnal bodies.

No we die because of Adam's sin. Adam sinned and because of that all human's will die. Not because of our own sins. The bible does not say we inherit Adam's sin. Man's nature was changed when Adam sinned

In the likeness of Adam's fallen nature, we inherited his sin because we're born spiritually dead (estranged from God) and we begin physically dying at birth.

No, we inherit the nature not the sin

It is impossible to be born sinless. We just can't convert from sinless at birth to becoming a sinner.

a sinner is someone that commits sins. What sin do infants commit

Jesus said in Matt 15:18, But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man unclean.

We're sinners because we have the nature of sin (Adam's sin) already within us all. Our uncleanness/sin comes from within the heart, it's within us at birth, it isn't something that we learn later in life.

No we are sinners because we sin. We SIN because we have a fallen nature

Sin is already rooted in our heart at birth. Remember, we were the children of wrath by nature? Nature comes automatically, it isn't learned.

No the propensity to commit sin is already rooted in our nature

Jeremiah 17:9 states,
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked......"

Yes, at birth we have a "deceitful, wicked sin infested heart." It's for that reason that God desires to give us a new heart, Ezekiel 36:26, "I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh....."

Let me repeat what God says about children

Deu 1:39 And as for your little ones, who you said would become a prey, and your children, who today have no knowledge of good or evil, they shall go in there. And to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.

When Adam and Eve sinned they then had the knowledge of good and evil. Your little ones don't yet have that knowledge. They are innocent

Job 25:4 reads, "..... How can one born of woman be pure?"

I already addressed this verse and the other one

Death entered through sin. The fact the infants die is evidence that sin is present in their life.

Death entered through Adam's sin not the infant's sin

So no, these babies didn't commit adultery or rob banks as you suggested, they inherited the Adamic sin.

The bible does not say they inherited Adam's sin. They inherited the consequences of Adam's sin

[Austin]

Anything which is not like God in every respect is sin. Anything that comes short of the glory of God is sin. Any nature whether human or spiritual that is not exactly like God is sin.Now who is under sin. Everyone, because everyone is born with a human nature and it is lower than the perfect nature of God.

What about the spirit which is the life? That is what is saved, not the flesh which is born into sin. What about the spirit of an infant? Does God give life and is he the sub stainer of life as recorded in the bible? Then if life ends on this earth in the consideration of an infant is it He our Lord that gave this life, and is it he that determines the end of life.
If so then it is He that is the justifies of all things both seen and unseen.

God is God all by himself and shall do as he pleases. Who shall confront Him in any matter or who are we that should question his divine judgement, shouldn't we first judge ourselves before we meddle into the affairs of our Savior.

The living God whom I serve, Jesus the Christ the Lord of Glory has spoken to me in a personal way concerning this matter. This debate over the salvation or sinless nature of an infant is foolish,Jesus loves children, it is adults that train them to become wicked, for children learn from what they see and what they hear in this world around them.

That is why the Lord's word tells us strongly, to bring our children up in the word and in the house of the Lord and they will never depart from it.

I'm done!

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Austin

Anything which is not like God in every respect is sin. Anything that comes short of the glory of God is sin. Any nature whether human or spiritual that is not exactly like God is sin.!

that is a little off. because, we no the angels in heaven are not like God but there not sin. They dont have the same attributes of God, and some where in the book of Hebrews speaking about the son was made lower than the angels,, also he was not sin.

Being born in flesh doesnt make you a sinner. Its the nature of our minds that make us a sinner.


Sin is the trangression of the law. and nothing more.

God is God all by himself and shall do as he pleases. Who shall confront Him in any matter or who are we that should question his divine judgement, shouldn't we first judge ourselves before we meddle into the affairs of our Savior.

God is God and He can do what He wants, but the thing is He gave us is word and we can see what He wants to do. we are not left in the dark to His overall plans.

The living God whom I serve, Jesus the Christ the Lord of Glory has spoken to me in a personal way concerning this matter. This debate over the salvation or sinless nature of an infant is foolish,Jesus loves children, it is adults that train them to become wicked, for children learn from what they see and what they hear in this world around them.

That is why the Lord's word tells us strongly, to bring our children up in the word and in the house of the Lord and they will never depart from it.

I'm done!

Very well put

[Austin]

Spiritual death is nothing more than spiritually separated from the fellowship with the spirit of the Lord. It is not death in the sense of non-existence. The spirit of man is not dead. If fact the power of God's existence is what sustains life of living being in the flesh.
Adam and Eve were given the GIFT of eternal life by God's grace and personal will long before the event of the partaking of the fruit. As a penalty of their actions and because now they knew right from wrong by the law of God in their hearts they now faced condemnation on a daily basis.
But what happened to the original debate on infants and sin on this post?

[Sandra79]

Dunno if this has been said but what about in psalm 51 I was shapen in inquity and in sin did my mother concieve me. I believe we are innocent when we enter the world but not sinless. Its just like a new babe in the church... When they came into the church they didnt know any better.wh when they sinned but yet they still sinned.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sandra79

Dunno if this has been said but what about in psalm 51 I was shapen in inquity and in sin did my mother concieve me. I believe we are innocent when we enter the world but not sinless. Its just like a new babe in the church... When they came into the church they didnt know any better.wh when they sinned but yet they still sinned.

That verse does not say "I was born with sin"

"Sin" is what someone does by disobeying God.

It's impossible to be innocent but not sinless

Jesus was innocent
Mat 27:4 saying, "I have sinned by betraying innocent blood." They said, "What is that to us? See to it yourself."

It means "free from guilt"...Jesus was sinless

[Austin]

And you has he quickened who were dead in trespasses, and sins.

Wherein in time past you walked according to thew course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience.
Among who also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were,[ by nature] the children of wrath, even as others.

But God who is rich in mercy, for his great love, wherewith he loved us,
Even when,[ we were dead in sins] hath [ quickened us together with Christ.]

Ephesians 2: 1-5. Also Colossians 2:13.

I don't like being toyed with by someone who professes to be a christian on this forum, and yet whats to dangle those of us who know the scripture for the sake of their own personal amusement.

This sort of behavior makes me suspicious that such a person is either an atheists or a person who has a knowledge in the bible but don't believe the bible, or, is totally out of fellowship with the Holy Ghost, if they were ever a part of the spirit of God.

Any person who is born again knows that before they surrendered their life to Jesus they had to first realize they were lost without the life of God's spirit in them. But once they made that personal surrender and the Lord Jesus came into the soul of their being they know by that power they were changed and a new desire took place of the old one.

If anyone has not had that change I would suggest they need to to take attention in the matter.

As for this subject I'm not going to allow my intelligence to be challenged by ignorance, I have no more to say in this matter, the bible speaks for it's self and I still in the old fashion way, believe it is God's written word to guide us in this world so we don't get off track by the opinion and philosophy of people.

Paul said. It is concluded that all are under sin.

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Austin

And you has he quickened who were dead in trespasses, and sins.

Wherein in time past you walked according to thew course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience.
Among who also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were,[ by nature] the children of wrath, even as others.

But God who is rich in mercy, for his great love, wherewith he loved us,
Even when,[ we were dead in sins] hath [ quickened us together with Christ.]

Ephesians 2: 1-5. Also Colossians 2:13.

I don't like being toyed with by someone who professes to be a christian on this forum, and yet whats to dangle those of us who know the scripture for the sake of their own personal amusement.

This sort of behavior makes me suspicious that such a person is either an atheists or a person who has a knowledge in the bible but don't believe the bible, or, is totally out of fellowship with the Holy Ghost, if they were ever a part of the spirit of God.

Any person who is born again knows that before they surrendered their life to Jesus they had to first realize they were lost without the life of God's spirit in them. But once they made that personal surrender and the Lord Jesus came into the soul of their being they know by that power they were changed and a new desire took place of the old one.

If anyone has not had that change I would suggest they need to to take attention in the matter.

As for this subject I'm not going to allow my intelligence to be challenged by ignorance, I have no more to say in this matter, the bible speaks for it's self and I still in the old fashion way, believe it is God's written word to guide us in this world so we don't get off track by the opinion and philosophy of people.

Paul said. It is concluded that all are under sin.

your post is very arrogant. You also need to be carefull about judging other servents in the masters house when you are just a servant as well. So its good to have your intelligence challanged, no matter what the case. whether your right or wrong

And old fashion doesnt make it the only fashion either.

[LUKE2447]

What is spiritual death? I hear this thrown around like all the time yet few really explain it.

We know what physical death is.